"Markus Lanz" discusses solutions to the current refugee crisis. The relativization of this plight, however, causes incomprehension on the part of the moderator.
Hamburg – The dam collapse in southern Ukraine means an additional burden for the locals, who are already tormented by the war. Sarah Pagung first tries to give the group an overview of the situation there at "Markus Lanz". The Russia expert speaks of a "humanitarian catastrophe of enormous proportions" that, according to her estimate, threatens 40,000 people. The cause of the rupture has not yet been found, but Pagung believes that the Russians destroyed the dam to stop Ukraine's major offensive.
Lanz calls this attack a war crime. Pagung is of the same opinion and also warns of the long-term consequences of the destroyed agriculture and the distribution of landmines.
The host then explains that Ukraine, which has now been weakened once again, has only a small window of opportunity for its major offensive because the US government may cut its funds after the upcoming election. In such a scenario, Pagung sees Europe as having an even greater responsibility.
Lanz then recalls the words that Olaf Scholz recently chose when he spoke of a "new dimension of war" in relation to the dam failure. He wonders whether Germany would rush ahead with Ukraine aid if necessary.
Journalist Robin Alexander has serious doubts in this regard, because Scholz has so far acted "in the slipstream of the USA".
EU external centres controversially discussed at "Markus Lanz"
Serap Güler and Aminata Toure (right) as guests of Markus Lanz Screenshot: ZDF-Mediathek / Markus Lanz ©
Pagung then describes how Putin is increasing the pressure on Europe through targeted refugee flows, because this topic is controversially discussed in the countries. Lanz says that Germany alone will receive an estimated 400,000 to 500,000 refugees this year.
CDU politician Serap Güler therefore emphasizes how much she welcomes the idea of external centers. There would be accelerated asylum procedures, which would be completed after three months at the latest. However, Güler does not believe that the EU Commission will agree on the much-cited "joint solution" in the near future.
Aminata Toure is also in favour of a common European approach to the refugee crisis. At the same time, the integration minister of Schleswig-Holstein criticizes the proposal because the people there are "detained" during the three months. In addition, the riparian states have already expressed their rejection of the EU plans.
Asylum summit: Faeser warns against Germany going it alone
Putin "extremely irritable": Details of the information bubble around Russia's president apparently leak out
Steep template for Putin's propaganda: Probably Nazi symbols appeared among Ukrainian soldiers
After blowing up the Kakhovka dam: Russian troops are washed away
"Can show how sick we are": Prigozhin speculates about tactical nuclear strike in Belgorod
Fancy a voyage of discovery?
In Robin Alexander's opinion, accommodating the refugees in the centres would indeed be tantamount to detention, as those affected would not be allowed to leave the area. It is precisely this point that Toure finds "questionable" in terms of human rights. For the same reason, minors, for example, should not be turned away at the border in their eyes.
According to his own statement, Güler is nevertheless taking this step in order to send a signal to families who would no longer send their children ahead from now on. The former State Secretary for Migration also pointed out once again that only those people who are not war refugees and therefore have little chance of being granted the right to stay are detained in the centres.
Minister sees country prepared for refugee flows
Since she is so opposed to the EU's external centres, Lanz asks Toure whether she can understand why many district administrators are currently overwhelmed with the reception of refugees. The Green politician has certainly noticed these calls for help in this "challenging situation", she reports.
"Markus Lanz" – these were his guests on 7 June
- Serap Güler, politician (CDU)
- Robin Alexander, Journalist ("Die Welt")
- Sarah Pagung, political scientist
- Aminata Toure, politician (The Greens)
Lanz disagrees. He emphasizes that many districts are not challenged, but overwhelmed. Afterwards, he will present several clips from previous broadcasts in which district administrators talk about their precarious situation.
Toure then describes the measures her state is taking to support municipalities in taking in refugees. By increasing the number of existing beds, she estimates, Schleswig-Holstein has sufficient capacity to accommodate the arrivals, for example. The conditions of detention in the planned EU external borders would therefore be inexcusable for them.
Markus Lanz repeatedly interrupts Green Party politician
Lanz wants to know from Toure when she would limit the migration. The top politician once again refers to the capacities that are still available. But what if these capacities were used up, the ZDF presenter asks. "What do you do then?" asks Lanz. Toure squirms and finally refrains from giving a definite answer.
In order to show how alarming the situation is in some places, Lanz then refers to North Rhine-Westphalia. According to his information, there are numerous schools where the proportion of migrants is almost 90 percent, which makes it difficult to provide education for staff.
Markus Lanz therefore calls Aminata Toure "naïve" when she continues to speak of challenge instead of excessive demands in relation to the refugee crisis.
Toure, on the other hand, considers it illusory that the EU will find a common and humane solution to this problem. Robin Alexander, however, insists that something must be decided if the situation deteriorates again.
However, Toure believes that the situation is likely to worsen as a result of the targeted decisions. Rather, she advocates distributing people more fairly among European countries ("Doesn't happen," Lanz interjects) or repatriating people more consistently ("Doesn't happen either," Lanz interjects).
Alexander, on the other hand, welcomes the tougher stance that the EU would like to take in the future on migration. According to the author, people who have little chance of a successful asylum procedure should be "demotivated" accordingly. Serap Güler also hopes that Europe will soon reach out more to the refugees who are actually in need of protection.
"Markus Lanz" – The conclusion of the show
The refugee debate remains a hot potato. A quick and satisfactory solution for all parties involved is not in sight for the time being. However, playing down the problem does not help either. Especially since those affected have already reached their breaking point.