Darcy Lockman: “The maternal instinct is a lie. If women do certain things better, it is because we have done them many times.”

“All the women who have read the book tell me that they got angry while reading it, and I understand: I get angry every time I talk about it.”

Thus begins our chat with Darcy Lockman, who in

All the Rage.

Mothers, fathers and the myth of equal parenting

brings together data, research and testimonies that reflect the disproportionate amount of parental work that falls on women.

It was the arrival of her first child that made the psychologist and writer realize that even though she and her husband thought it would never happen, inequality within the couple was

in crescendo

.

“I lived like a second-class citizen in my own home.

“I tried to communicate my unhappiness to George, but he could only hear it as criticism, so I never succeeded,” she writes.

The data that reinforces such inequalities is devastating: once they have children, women add 22 hours of childcare, while men only add 14. The latter compensate for the effort by eliminating five hours of housekeeping.

However, women maintain their 15. The most recent information on daily time use compiled by Pew Research and the US Bureau of Labor Statistics reveals that women who work outside the home increase 65% of caregiving responsibilities of the children.

Their male partners?

35%.

While waiting to find couples capable of sharing responsibilities, the author explains, we are witnessing what political scientists call “increasing and unsatisfied expectations,” something that historically gives rise to revolutions, but has not encouraged women to launch the ensuing civil revolution.

Is it possible to change things?

Why is the feminist promise of a true de facto couple almost never fulfilled?

We talked about it with the author.

Captain Swing edits 'All the Rage'.

What does it mean for women's mental health to have to constantly communicate to their husbands what they have to do at home?

It depends on how we feel about it.

If we really don't care about this unequal distribution, it has no impact, but if we care and we don't want it to be that way, it unnerves us.

When we incessantly repeat to our partners what we need and do not get the desired response, anger increases.

It is terrible to feel that we are with someone who refuses to listen to our needs, as well as to have the impression of being in a position in which our demands are not met.

It is something that really ends up leaving a mark on our mental health.

He points out the importance of escaping the stereotype of “the complaining woman,” but isn't it curious that the cultural setback of the man who complains doesn't exist?

The problem is that the one who complains is the one who considers that his needs are not being met, and in Western culture we see those who express what they need and those who complain from a negative perspective.

Instead of highlighting and criticizing the fact that one part of the couple is not helping, which is why his wife is complaining, we assure that the problem lies with the person who raises her needs.

It's really sexist that there isn't the setback that you mention about the complaining husband, but do you know why it doesn't exist?

Because men have nothing to complain about.

It is a way of reinforcing the idea that women have to be in charge of everything.

What we have to do is internalize that we don't have to feel bad for expressing our displeasure.

If we go to the bank to withdraw money and they tell us that it is impossible, aren't we going to complain?

We talk about a contractual agreement that pushes us to fight for our needs, and yet, in romantic relationships, women are expected to set aside what they need.

Things don't have to be like this.

Do you think talking about social sexism can make the conversation about housework less personal?

I hope so.

I hope couples read the book and understand where they are coming from.

Since we are not aware of the point from which we start, we end up mired in a disaster that would not be such a thing if both parties understood that society pushes us to place ourselves in positions of inequality not because man is lazier, but because it is what we have internalized. .

I think it's important to understand that your partner is not the enemy: we have simply internalized that men are more valuable, as are their time and needs.

These ideas end up being reflected in our relationships.

Even couples who believe in equality see their dynamics change when a baby arrives.

Because?

We all have values, and although progressive couples value our partners and do not basically think that women have to do everything, we must be aware that our values ​​do not determine our behavior, even if we believe so.

We might think that the husband will realize that his wife is in charge of all the household work and will think that it is vital to distribute the tasks better, but contrary to expectations, he will assure that the best thing is for her to continue doing everything, claiming that "He does it better".

We justify our behaviors when they do not align with our values.

Do you think that if a couple read the book before becoming parents, they would behave differently when the baby arrived?

If both take it seriously and start a negotiation before the child arrives, because his arrival is going to involve a brutal amount of work, I think so.

When you live with your partner without having children yet, the responsibilities are not so immense.

The man usually does not even realize that his wife, basically, is already doing more things around the house, because she is not yet overwhelmed or exhausted.

However, when the baby arrives and we encounter this unequal division of powers, women will become exhausted.

We are not aware that the foundations had already been established for men to be somewhat absent from domestic tasks.

If you are aware of this, you will know that to change things, you have to negotiate all the time.

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It indicates that women feel much stronger pressure to be good mothers than fathers, who are cheered the moment they provide the slightest help.

Why do we act like this?

Mothers are expected to put aside their needs for their children, and since that is not expected of a father, when he does the minimum, he is applauded.

It's like if you start picking up trash on the street: people will say that you are very good, because it is not something you have to do.

How can a couple embrace domestic equality?

This work requires a lot of work within the couple, since each one has to reflect on how they have integrated sexism into their lives.

Each person can decide whether or not they want things to be that way.

Although we cannot individually change society, we can choose for our relationship to be different.

Society is not the way we want it to be, and I fear this is not going to change anytime soon.

In the United States, until World War II, middle-class women did not enter the workforce en masse, and they did so because men were at war.

What I mean is that the change did not come because a person wanted to work, but because there was a moment of crisis that changed behavior.

The coronavirus did something similar.

People were forced to work from home, and it was families in which men teleworked while wives went to the office that the division of household chores became equal.

In America it occurred in 10% of families and caused a change that was not the result of the desire to change, but of an external crisis.

It seems that social changes happen like this.

We cannot individually control when those changes occur;

The only thing we can do is try to improve the situation at home.

Can we achieve parental equity without institutional support?

I think so, but it's not easy.

In Spain, paternity leave lasts 16 weeks, and serves to remember that both mother and father are responsible for parenting.

When men are the ones who take parental leave and the woman is the one who goes to work, they gain confidence when it comes to taking care of the baby, because there is no one else to do it.

These things are not intellectually complicated, but we learn to do them simply by doing them.

These social changes in which it is the Government that reminds us that parenting is the responsibility of both parties are what change the prevailing mentality.

Can significant changes take place in couples regarding the distribution of tasks without this institutional support?

Yes, but it's easier if there is, right?

Is maternal instinct a lie?

Yes. What are instincts?

Behaviors that we implement without having learned them.

However, you learn to be a father and a mother.

How do you put on a diaper?

Learning to do it.

It's not an instinct!

How do you make sure the baby is not in danger?

Nor are we talking about something instinctive: we know what is dangerous around us thanks to various learnings.

The larger our brain is, the less role instincts play in our lives.

What we call instinct is actually learning, and the problem with calling it instinct is that we can cling to the idea that only women have them, thus validating that they go have fun while women take care of the children. .

A new case of strategic incompetence, right?

It's very easy to say that someone is better than you at something to do nothing, but in reality, those things that women are better at are those that we have learned.

If we do it better, it is because we have done it many times.

These phrases are used to justify not taking responsibility.

Marital happiness is affected when women feel that the division of labor is unfair.

Are we condemned to be unhappy as a couple?

No!

In fact, studies indicate that the only couples whose marital happiness is not affected by becoming parents are those who claim to have shared responsibilities equally.

The least important thing is whether the distribution is truly equal: the important thing is that both feel that this is the case.

If you know in advance that the key to the couple's happiness lies in this equality, you will anticipate the work that parenting will involve before the arrival of the baby and thus avoid dynamiting the relationship.

Women tend to abandon anger in favor of gratitude when faced with certain inequalities in the home, but isn't anger the driving force behind many changes?

Gratitude helps us be less angry.

It is true that we tend to rationalize anger.

This happens, for example, when we realize that our husband helps little at home and we say something classic: “Our mother was worse.”

Gratitude is important, but I think we have to feel anger too.

Appreciating what he does at home is vital, but so is recognizing that we need him to do more.

Why are women comfortable when their needs are less attended to?

Children are raised to embrace the silver state, while women have been raised to be communal.

They think about their priorities and we think about how others feel.

When a couple is created made up of a man and a woman, neither party understands that the other has been educated in such a different way, as it is something that we begin to notice as we grow up.

When I started living with my husband, I saw certain strange things in which I didn't even know how to identify what it was that I found so strange, until I realized that he always thought about his needs and put them before everything else.

Mind you, my husband is wonderful, but when you live with a man, you realize how different he operates in the world.

I don't think they are aware of it the way we are, because we tend to focus on the most powerful members of society: the men.

In short: they have been raised to think about themselves and we have been raised not to.

We have to be flexible with both positions, but I think there are times when it is good for each person to put their own needs first and others when we have to think about others.

We are polarized by that education.

Aren't we so used to inequality that sometimes we don't even realize it?

If we were aware of it all the time we would go crazy.

There are studies that show that in cases of couples who ensure that the distribution of tasks in the home is equal, in reality women are in charge of two-thirds of the work.

If they both feel that the distribution is fair, nothing happens, but the truth is that they continue to do much more.

Although there is no simple answer, how can we try to achieve parity at home?

We must be aware that it is very possible that this inequality exists at home even if we think that it will not be like that.

In this way, the couple can act as a team to address what they are going to face.

Life and relationships are hard enough;

Therefore, we do not want this issue, which despite being tricky and delicate, is something that we can address and control, to be what separates us.

If we share the work, we come to the agreement of being aware of how important it is to do so and how essential it is to be open to listening to the other in a collaborative way, we can be closer to that balanced distribution.