/cloudfront-eu-central-1.images.arcpublishing.com/prisa/2PYW3GK2ZFBAPF3VMCHDJLC7WA.jpg)
João Paulo Pacifico (46 years old, São Paulo, Brazil) is uncomfortable talking about money.
He prefers to consider himself an activist, not a super-rich, but it turns out that he is the only Latin American billionaire who has signed the
Proud to Pay More
(Taxes) manifesto, signed by 250 people who demand that their governments tax their assets more.
Pacifico, heiress Abigail Disney or Brian Cox of
Succession
argue that the
status quo
exacerbates a growing and harmful inequality that threatens democracy.
The Brazilian deploys such a harsh speech against the most sacred aspects of capitalism that it is surprising that he ended up building such a successful career in that world.
We spoke at the headquarters of the Gaia Group, which he founded and invests in social housing or cooperatives of the Landless Movement.
It remains on Brazilian Wall Street.
Father of two daughters and husband of a judge, he sold the traditional part of the business and donated almost all the millions obtained to an NGO in which he participates.
A movement similar to that of the founder of Patagonia.
Ask.
Is he super rich from birth or did he create his fortune?
Answer.
I don't know what the super rich are.
I gave up a lot of money, which was not inherited.
I have the privileges of a middle class person in Brazil, I went to a private school and university.
Q.
What did you want to be when you grew up?
R.
Athlete, dedicate myself to swimming.
I grew up without luxuries.
Q.
Why did you decide to join this call presented in Davos?
A.
Taxes are one of the ways to achieve social justice.
Perhaps the most important, but not the only one.
The most important thing I did was sell a company I founded and give up a lot of the money from this sale.
I donated a lot of money, cash, not company value, real money.
Q.
How much?
R.
_
I prefer that you don't put it.
Q.
Without figures it is difficult to talk about fortunes and taxes.
A.
I have always been very critical of the concentration of wealth.
For me, anyone who accumulates a lot is, as a rule, an idiot.
I did not anticipate the repercussions that signing the letter would have.
It is very obvious to me that I have to pay more taxes.
Proportionately, I gave up much more than the BASF heiress and mine was not an inheritance.
Created Gaia 15 years ago.
Raising resources for the MST and other social movements, for impactful and low-profit operations, is also a way of giving up [money] in favor of a greater objective.
Q.
The Davos letter says that philanthropy is not the solution.
A.
If a rich person suffers from cancer, he or she will probably donate to cancer, but who will donate to the diseases of the poorest?
When we replace taxes with philanthropy, we privatize the common good into the hands of a few people.
This, which to me is most obvious, is not so obvious.
Another thing, between a millionaire and a billionaire there is a lot of difference.
Q.
Are you from the 1%, the 0.1% or the 0.01% of Brazil?
A.
No idea.
I have a very privileged economic position.
And I think the world's tax system is unfair.
And that of Brazil, very unfair.
Spot.
Q.
Brazil is especially bloody.
Whoever earns 4,000 reais a month (about $800) pays the same income tax as someone who earns four million ($800,000).
Data from the Ministry of Finance.
A.
It is not reasonable, nor is it right.
And we find many poor people on the right arguing that they don't have to pay more [taxes] because they think that one day they will become [successful] and they won't.
It's crazy.
And there are those who threaten to leave the country if they are charged more, blackmailers.
Where is the social conscience of these people?
Q.
Why are low taxes for the super-rich catastrophic for society and threaten democracy?
A.
People have to understand that money has a gigantic influence on power.
An example from Brazil.
Agribusiness entrepreneurs fit in this building.
But the ruralist bench brings together more than half of the deputies.
And this happens because the Brazilian people really love agriculture?
No, because money buys power and influence in the media.
The same in the United States.
Q.
And what are the consequences?
A.
One of the forms of corruption that people do not see is the purchase of public goods at a cheaper price.
They pay few taxes, so they will accumulate more money, they begin to control public goods that are no longer public and they control everything.
Its objective is to weaken the State.
Real power is not in the hands of those we elect.
The true power is the people with the most money, who are hoarding more and more.
And the world is moving rapidly down that path.
Q.
You say that you founded Gaia to humanize the financial markets.
It sounds like a public relations campaign.
How was it born and what does it sell?
A.
Look, what drives the financial market is greed, it's a shark's game.
It made me uncomfortable because I was never like that.
The 2008 crisis came and I said: 'I want to create a company that is great to work for, with good people.'
Q.
Who did you work for before?
A.
He was director of a subsidiary company of an investment bank.
I also worked for agribusiness, I know it.
And, when the wave of real estate securitization arrived, I surfed it.
I was lucky.
Q.
What are those impact investments you are focused on?
R.
Investments with real impact.
We finance housing renovations in favelas, financing for the MST, for family agriculture.
And when I tried it, I said to myself: 'This is what I want to do in life.'
I decided to sell the traditional part of the business.
And I was lucky again because someone from the competition wanted to buy.
And donated a lot of it.
I am creating an endowment fund that will support causes.
The first, education.
Q.
Did you find that MST is a good deal?
A.
Everything turned out great.
Investing in the MST gave us a fair return.
But you don't invest in stocks that are going to go up, they are loans at fair interest rates.
From that perspective, it's a good deal, wonderful.
You are producing food, reducing inequality, planting agroecology... But the financial market prefers to finance pesticides.
He is completely out of touch with reality, only concerned with quarterly profits.
Spot.
Q.
Capitalism has disappointed you.
A.
Absolutely, it doesn't work.
Q.
And how did you get into the financial market?
A.
Because it hires engineers, I was an engineer and good at accounting.
At first I was completely into the system, I even had right-wing thoughts.
I began to change my mind when I saw the lack of humanity.
That's not how you treat people!
The second thing was understanding that the system is organized to maintain privileges and exploit people.
It's a small self-help club.
I look a little like their members, a white, heterosexual man... I let my hair grow so I wouldn't look so much like myself.
The market is sexist, racist.
Many times women, in order to grow up, have sexist behaviors.
LGBTQ+ people have to pretend.
And black people don't have the slightest chance.
Q.
Is the beach the most democratic place in Brazil?
A.
Maybe, although some are closed.
Not even Carnival is democratic.
Maybe the street troupes of São Paulo... but the super rich don't go there.
And in Salvador, a cordon separates the people from those who pay.
The football stadiums... there we are half together.
Q.
Do you remember when you made your first million and what you did with it?
A.
If I'm not a guy who earns money to spend.
My wife takes care of everything.
Q.
What is your rich man's whim?
Some will have.
A.
I travel business class, but I don't always do it.
I think it's the only whim that's cool.
I have zero attachment to cars, clothes... I like to eat healthy.
Oh, I have been a vegetarian for 16 years, and vegan several days a week.
Follow all the information from El PAÍS América on
and
X
, or in our
weekly newsletter
.
Subscribe to continue reading
Read without limits
Keep reading
I am already a subscriber
_