Asaf Gil/Walla system, edited by Ziv Steiner
When Asaf Gil arrived at the beginning of October at the Walla studio to be photographed for an interview on the Tiktok podcast of the Israel Press Institute, the days were the days of protests in the streets.
The "reform" of Communications Minister Karai was placed in the center of the table, and the rise of Channel 14 in the face of the beatings Network 13 received were in focus.
Gil's new reality show "Peking Express" intrigued the entire industry and threatened - perhaps this time - to break the streak of disappointments suffered by the channel.
Then came the war.
"Peking", which was supposed to appear on a network screen in an invested launch two days after the 7/10 massacre, went into the bunker, like the rest of the broadcast schedule on all the channels.
The format of "Peking" was much riskier than that of singing or cooking shows.
Reality that is based on personal "survival" and scarcity slides less well in the throat when the reality outside is stronger than it.
Four months later, when the public is already looking for escapism and on the assumption that there will be no more Baltams, the program is expected to air next week. Gil, respectively, can no longer wait.
Gil, the founder and director of Gil Productions, is currently the most successful producer in Israel. He is signed among others On the four most watched reality shows in Israel, which were broadcast in prime time on Keshet 12 in recent years: "Master Chef", "The Sharks", "Wedding at First Sight" and "The Masked Singer". Among the many programs he produced are also "Whose line is this?", "Date for Straight", "Shorts", "Grease", "Dancing with the Stars", "Boss in Disguise", "Super Nanny", "Baby Boom", "Come Eat With Me" and "Heroes".
"The kind of programs I do are very authentic."
Peking Express/screenshot, screenshot
"We're just watching, it's becoming a documentary"
Let's start with 'Peking'.
Tell me how the idea actually came about?
"Actually, it starts with a very significant change in the management of the network that took place in the last year. The entire program department there changed. I set up a meeting with them and that was the first offer I made to them. I actually came and said - there was the 'Race to the Million' here (the format was transferred to competitor Keshet D.V.), who worked for many seasons and worked with great success.
"I came and said, 'Look, because the race to the million went on hiatus because of the corona virus, I think it might be worth renewing with Peking Express, which is a format that is somewhat reminiscent of the race to the million (which moved to the 12 D.U. arch).
It is very, very different mainly in that it is much more real, much more extreme because the couples there compete with very, very difficult physical hardship.
They are not in Instagram areas, not in tourist site areas, they are running in third world places.
We shot the series in Cambodia, Laos and Thailand.
"There is always this myth that Israelis, wherever you throw them in the world, they will get along or they know how to get along, and they accept, build combinations and everything, and it's very interesting to check that."
you checked
And what did you discover?
"That this myth turned out in retrospect to be untrue. In retrospect, I also think that Peking Express really takes things to the extremes, not extreme as such, in extreme sports, but really extreme, when two people who know each other well have to survive in the illusory reality that they have a dollar a day, No one takes care of them, they have to take care of themselves for food and sleep, for transportation and they are in a race, they also have to move forward all the time.
"This is one of the most fascinating programs I have done, mainly because of this.
It's tougher than survival.
Survival is a tough reality show, but everything is stitched together by the production.
Here nothing was sewn by the production.
It's exactly the complete opposite."
These claims have accompanied reality TV since its inception. The tension between "scripted" and "authentic." I thought we'd made progress. Isn't the intervention embodied in the brand?
"The kind of programs I do are very authentic.
I try to avoid interference.
For me, a good format is one whose production creates a very, very challenging reality, but everything else is, it's documentary.
'Wedding at first sight' is exactly like that.
We create a wedding, it's very unnatural, very manipulative, but once the wedding takes place, we just watch what happens.
It's becoming more documentary."
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"It's very elusive, I remind you that Keshet's counter-reaction to the announcement of the launch of "Beijing Express" on Sunday was to raise MKR on Sunday, so who took the lead?"
This week, Bekhesh 12, the final of the next star for Eurovision, was broadcast, which produced a viewing figure as if there had never been a war here.
On the other hand, "Beijing" is essentially different.
Is the TV ready to return to a completely normal schedule?
"A question that has no answer. We will never know when the exact moment that 'now is possible' will be. But from what I experience about myself and those around me, people are exhausted by the news and the emotional burden that comes with it. People want to forget a little, to repress, for a while. I think it is What television can offer at the moment, and it's a lot. It's of course still the people's choice whether to watch the show or not, but I think it's possible to allow that choice now."
And what do you think of Keshet's move to, at least partially, the screen?
The channel has a sense of responsibility in being subject to the audience's criticism of what is acceptable and what is not. You hear. When the next star rose, it was less obvious than the broadcast feels now. Obviously, there was the constraint of Keshet to meet the Eurovision deadline and to announce who will represent Israel by a certain date, which for them requires the broadcast of the program. But in my opinion, the biggest problem is actually interference face-to-face with the 'situation' in reality shows. For example, these days we are starting to film a season of Tunami, and we felt that there is a huge desire among many more people than usual to recognize the relationship following the shaky experiences that the country is going through. The 7.10 in the series itself. People want to watch a romantic program even without the context of the situation."
Once again it turned out that Keshet led the industry.
"It's very elusive, I remind you that Keshet's counter-reaction to the announcement of the launch of "Beijing Express" on Sunday was to raise MKR on Sunday, so who took the lead?".
Was there at any point a thought to shelve "Peking"?
"There was no thought of Geniza, nor is there any reason to shelve it. It is a fascinating reality show that largely defines the Israeli genome, a topic that is being discussed a lot now. It tells an accurate story when it comes to the behavior of Israelis abroad."
Is there a fear that a survival reality show will not work because Is our reality much more difficult when there are abductees in Gaza?
"Yes, certainly, but these concerns occupied us in the previous months, less so now.
It's important for me to say that no one in this reality show was really in danger of survival because it turns out (and this is what the format carefully checks) that when we have no one to trust to take care of us, we take care of ourselves very well and find strength and resourcefulness that sometimes inspires amazement to find food, a place to sleep and a way to get around (because The dollar a day is of course not enough for anything).
Following the war, you experienced a halt and cancellations of productions and contracts.
tell me about it.
"Obviously. An objective situation has arisen that all the productions accumulated by the franchisees (mainly Keshet, which produces much more than a network) have been accumulated since October and have not been broadcast. Everything that is not urgent and does not have to go into production, does not go out. In addition, the general economic situation in the country is in a significant question mark. There is a not unreasonable fear of a recession, and everyone knows who is the first to be hit by a recession - advertising budgets. It will take a long time for the situation to return to normal, if at all."
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"We will never know when the exact moment that 'now is possible' will be."
The next star/screenshot, Sagittarius 12
"The problem of Network 13 is first of all inheritance"
Let's go back to network 13. Explain to me through the eyes of a television expert who is not a journalist and who does not come from the miserable political position of the right or the left, what is the problem with this channel?
"The problem with Network 13 is, first of all, inheritance. There is a broadcasting organization here that is used to being in a disadvantageous position for many years, with each management inheriting it from the previous management. It's not that you come and say 'they are to blame, they don't know how to work'. They don't. Take for example You are 'Big Brother'. The last season of Big Brother worked well, but all the other hours of the day the channel was in embarrassing areas of ratings. I mean, financially, even when the prime time program works great and the balance is very, very low, this is a very difficult problem."
You say inheritance and I say pattern.
Every new management that is appointed, instead of recognizing the new reality that has been created, in which the channel is a niche channel, insists on finding the head at the top of the spectrum - see the Peking Express article.
Why doesn't Channel 14 or the corporation invest so much money in a product that is unlikely to be able to meet the ambitious goals of the 20 percent viewing area?
Maybe someone out there someday will have to say - isn't that what we were meant for?
"I don't think it's a network's problem. I don't remember any new reality show that came up in recent years, at all on the network. I remember repeating the same formats over and over again. I think there's something great about a new reality show format finally appearing on the network.
"You know, a request Constantly changing, constantly refreshing.
They also fall sometimes, like in the 'team' format, but they rise, they innovate.
Nothing has been renewed on the network for a long time and I am happy and proud to be the producer who finally brings a new reality show to the screen of a network.
I think the problem with a network is that they don't try, but stick to the familiar and the old.
"And regarding Pekin, look, there are people who would wait and say let's see how it is, and then I'll express myself, I'll say whether it's excellent or not, no I'm telling you now. One of the best shows I've produced. It's very special, very exciting, very concerned with relationships. We used our accumulated knowledge from Hatunami there because we deal a lot with the relationship of each couple there, much more than what was in Race to the Million. Big Brother and Survival are social formats, that is, the only one against the rest. In Beijing, the social element is much lower and the element much higher , and therefore also fascinating.
"The success of such a format is related, for example, to the casting of the couples, that they will be fascinating not only the first second you see them.
There should be a relationship there, even in the tenth week it will be interesting to see."
"Nothing has been updated on the network for a long time."
"Survival" format/screenshot, network 13
"At some point you say it can't go lower than that - and here it comes. Because of the general decline in linear TV and also because of the strengthening of Kan and 14"
Minus the war, let me summarize 2023 in a few sentences, from the point of view of the television industry.
"It was not an easy year. As in many other fields, in the field of communication this was also a problematic year on an economic level. Nobody has money and the horizon ahead looks very bleak. In previous years I always said that the situation was not bad, but at some point you tell yourself that it cannot go any lower than this to arrive - and here it is coming. Partly because of course of the general decrease in viewing linear television, but also because of two very, very dramatic processes that we have seen - the strengthening of here and of Channel 14."
Two entities that you actually hardly work with.
So let's talk about the corporation for a moment.
For him, 2023 was actually a successful year, at least in terms of ratings and reviews.
Before the war, the esteemed "One" was broadcast and now the Rolnik Report is also broadcast.
And I want to ask you if you see the possibility of such things in commercial television.
"The one" could have sat in Avi Nir's arc or in Topolski's network?
"I think so. I think there are nuances that might make it more suitable for public broadcasting, but these are nuances. For example, I produce a show called 'The Sharks'. It's a BBC show. You know, nobody can suspect the BBC of being television Commercially. It's the most public television available and the highest level. So I think there are things I wouldn't broadcast here if I were responsible for their content, such as grid games and money and such, but there are almost none of those today."
I want to remind you of something.
We met in 2016 for a similar conversation.
So it was the eve of the split of Channel 2 and the explosion that accompanied the merger of Mesh and News Ten.
Even then there was great distress and uncertainty in the air.
Maybe it's worth realizing that we are in an industry that bleeds by definition, and it will only bleed more and more?
"I don't think that's true, I think that the channels need more land, more platforms. I think that Keshet works very well in this context and I think that its financial situation, I will say cautiously, gives the impression that it is a little better than the others. This happens mainly because it looks forward and develops All kinds of things ahead."
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"No one can suspect the BBC of being commercial television."
"The Sharks"/screenshot, Keshet 12
"I was ready to do a reality show for Channel 14 as well"
Let's move on to channel 14. If they now want to produce a broadcast channel that does not only work on a studio and talking heads, but also on reality, are you there for them?
"You know. I've been in the industry for over thirty years, and I don't do television at all costs. I have to say that every morning I wake up and I say how lucky I am in what I do, both because I have a lot of fun and because I do work that has meaning. It has an impact about a great many people in the country, even if it is not political. I think that in the nuances, in the values I do in my programs, which are very, very commercial and easy to digest programs, I also broadcast things and influence the people of Israel."
So will you produce for 14 or not?
"If I feel that I can make a program there that I live with, that transmits positive values, then I have no problem with it being on this platform, absolutely not. In the end, I have no judgment on this channel."
Channel 14 reflects first of all the disintegration of Israeli television into tribes.
But he did something else, he showed the commercial channels how to make profitable prime time at a tenth of the price.
doesn't it bother you?
"In my opinion, Channel 14 feeds on the feeling of deprivation, this is one of the things that most motivates the right. After all, I listen to Yariv Levin and also to Netanyahu, and they constantly talk as if they are not in power at all, as if they are constantly abused and threatened and beaten. This is the public that watches Channel 14, He comes and says, finally, finally, I can see a television that speaks to me.
"I think that when the day comes, and it will someday come, that Benjamin Netanyahu will not be the prime minister and there will be another Likud that will be right-wing, but not in the sleepy areas it is in today, Channel 14 will also change the tone and its messages.
Right now it's a reflection of the very, very, very strange and chaotic situation we're experiencing today."
"After Netanyahu, he too will change the tone and the messages."
Channel 14/screenshot, Channel 14
"It's a death blow to the industry when there is no competition, so I think the most important thing right now is first of all for the network to have strong ratings, and I'm lending a hand"
We are in a world where there is Keshet, which is unusual in its leadership, and it also makes viewers bleed - and in front of it are three channels, which are fighting over number two.
To what extent can the reality show, which requires a huge budget and deep pockets, be affected by this?
"I think it's very important to have competition, that's why I'm also very happy that Peking Express is on the network because I hope there will be competition in prime time, without competition in prime time we're in a big problem. For example, I don't miss the days of Channel 10. I then produced 'Baby Boom' and 'Heroes' and many other programs for the channel, but there was no competition. There was Channel 2 with 25-30% viewing, and there was Channel 10 which had 10% on Yom Tov. This is a death blow to the industry when there is no competition, so I think the most What is important right now is first of all that the network has a strong rating, and I am lending a hand."
Do you really believe that we will return to the days of Keshet vs. Mesh - head to head?
"Certainly. Look, I did my marriage and the big brother broadcast on the network beat us. This is a numerical fact. And so it was with 'Dancing with the Stars.' I've been on television for over 30 years, I remember that when I started, the Bon Ton was Tel Aviv women - Avri Gilad and Erez Tal were the cool Tel Avivians at that time. Today it's not like that. Today, being a Tel Avivian is mostly not that cool on television, and in the industry they stopped being enthusiastic about Tel Aviv women."
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"Today, being a Tel Avivian is mostly not that cool on TV."
Wedding at first sight/screenshot, Sagittarius 12
Regulation?
These are "councils that barely function"
There was a very big debate before the war about the role of the media.
Personally, I was very, very annoyed that, let's say, at the beginning of the coup attempt, we could see situations of huge demonstrations, while reality TV was being broadcast.
Are you able to understand the plot?
Was it true in terms of programming?
"First of all, we really are in a very, very extreme and very, very unusual world, this whole world of the regime coup. And I must say that on the very evening you are talking about (the night of Gallant D.V.'s dismissal) we were filming in Cambodia and from a distance it was much louder, Even catastrophic, than it was. And it was catastrophic."
What is your position regarding the reform led by Communications Minister Shlomo Karai?
"I think that the rules of the game are not being changed, and this is what Krei is trying to do. To the best of my judgment, television today is not biased in one direction or another, but is open and enabling. There is a pluralism of expressions, and he wants to change that in a threatening and mafioso way. In fact, he tells the channels If they don't broadcast something the government wants to hear, it will be financially harmed."
And maybe he wants to diversify?
disconnect from the cables?
Give a starting point and opportunity for everyone?
"He has a ridiculous claim that he is opening up the market that does not need a license and that there should be some council that he would appoint that would be able to impose fines in a very, very significant way. There is a lot of stupidity and a lot of dishonesty in this, because in the end, the significant thing is that the council that is responsible for the broadcasts is a political council, what which does not exist today.
"This is something very, very, very dangerous, which has never happened in the State of Israel.
Even when there is a corporate board, the people there are public figures, media figures, they are not politicians, and it changes and they have to be clean of any blemish."
Even today the chairman of the second authority is appointed by the minister of communications.
As for the Cable and Satellite Council, we have already seen that it is deeply affected by political interests anyway.
"These are councils that barely function. The second authority barely controls the things that are broadcast, for better or for worse. Sometimes it's for the better, but it has lost its validity. 10 years ago, 20 years ago, this council was a body that the franchises feared, and rightly so."
So what would you call the Minister of Communications to come and do?
"It's a bit pathetic and funny for me to say that, because the Minister of Communications comes with an agenda, he wants to control the media, and that's exactly the story. I think that the more he allows the media bodies to be truly independent, without fines and without things that could bring them down as soon as they are not honest Despite it, we will receive the best communication. By the way, not necessarily in a left or right context, just good communication."
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