The Immigration Prosecutor: “You can move the border further away, pass the problem to another country, but immigration will continue”

Beatriz Sánchez assumed the position of Prosecutor of the Human Trafficking and Immigration Chamber in May 2022 and just a month later the Melilla tragedy occurred in which at least 23 people died trying to enter Spain.

Sánchez undertook some proceedings that she ended up shelving because she found no evidence of a crime in the conduct of the Spanish agents.

She is forceful in her defense that her work must be supported by evidence, she also remembers how hard those months were.

“From a human point of view, it was heartbreaking to deal with people who have suffered so much to get here.

I had to stop some of the interrogation because they started crying,” she recalls at the end of the interview.

Since then, a multitude of episodes require her attention, although Sánchez has a true vocation: the fight against trafficking, which she calls the slavery of the 21st century.

“The identification of victims may not seem very high, but the fact that there is only one person who is a victim of human trafficking is already terrible,” she defends.

Ask.

He has been at the Barajas airport this week to check the situation of the asylum seekers.

What have you seen?

Answer.

[Huffs] It's a complicated question.

When I went, the pressure had already dropped compared to previous days and there was no overcrowding, but the conditions can clearly be improved.

I cannot give more details because I still have to send a report to the State Attorney General's Office, but what I can tell you is that the current conditions are only admissible if it is a critical and urgent moment.

But situations like this can happen again.

We believe that there must be adequately equipped facilities that can be, for example, modular, to be prepared for when it happens again.

Q.

Spain, a country that has received irregular immigration for more than 30 years, seems to have one migration crisis after another.

And, sometimes, it is not so much because of the number of people, but because of the response we give...

A.

Spain, due to its geographical position, will continue to have significant migratory pressure from Africa and also from Ibero-American countries.

This is going to be a constant and continuous measures must be adopted to guarantee the dignity and fundamental rights of immigrants in general and asylum seekers in particular.

Saying that immigrants must be protected is unpopular, but the real immigration problem is not, as some say, that they want to come and invade you, but the situation in which some countries that live in wealth find themselves compared to others. , who live in absolute poverty.

You cannot deny something that will continue to happen and the only possible solution is to adopt measures in the countries of origin from a point of view of justice and not mere charity.

You can move the border further away, you can pass the problem on to the next country by paying it, giving it the means, but the problem will continue, because people have nothing to lose if their countries do not offer them a future.

Q.

I don't see you very much in favor of the European migration policy of externalizing borders.

A.

Obviously not.

P.

Junts has once again stirred up the immigration debate in Catalonia and is committed, among other things, to the expulsion of multiple repeat offenders.

What do you think of this approach?

A.

First I have to read what the proposal is, but I believe that our law and our Penal Code already provide for situations in which a person can have their custodial sentence replaced by expulsion from the national territory.

And that cannot be modified by an autonomous community.

Equating immigration with crime.

It is a premise that seems wrong and unacceptable to me.

Beatriz Sanchez

Q.

But are these expulsions being carried out?

Why is it identified as a problem in Catalonia?

A.

We have the obligation to request, when appropriate, the replacement of the penalty for expulsion.

But very strict requirements must be met, for example, in the case of resident foreigners.

Or that very specific crimes have been committed in the case of community citizens.

The reason why expulsions are not carried out in the percentage that should be is because they cannot be documented through their countries of origin.

For years, Cuba, for example, has not accepted the return of its nationals, so it is evident that this matter does not only depend on the decision of a judge, or even of the competent authorities.

In any case, an ambiguous concept is being transferred to society, equating immigration with crime.

It is a premise that seems wrong and unacceptable to me.

Q.

Is there data that supports or disproves that perception?

A.

Data is always biased depending on how it is used and multiple variables must be taken into account.

In any case, there is no data to be able to affirm under any circumstances that among immigrants there is a greater incidence of committing criminal behavior.

Q.

After the transfer of thousands of migrants from the Canary Islands to the Peninsula, hundreds of alleged minors have appeared in adult centers.

Why is this happening?

Where does it fail?

A.

The deficiency is simply in the means they have to be able to make a good initial assessment from the moment they arrive.

We need human and also technical resources that allow us to make a provisional diagnosis when in doubt, because on many occasions they come in a situation of such physical deterioration that it makes them look older and after a week you realize that they are truly children.

More appropriate establishments are also needed so that these situations can be detected more easily.

Overcrowding, having people in warehouses, in places that do not allow individualized treatment, makes management difficult.

It is an entire chain that requires enormous resources and a commitment from Europe.

Q.

Spain has not regulated its asylum law for 15 years. Should a new law be promoted?

A.

Obviously.

Many years have passed and the evolution of the migration phenomenon is evident due to many causes and circumstances and, in addition, there is a fundamental issue and that is that the community directive has not been transposed.

We must address the new realities that are arising and contemplate new vulnerabilities, such as the crises caused by climate change.

Q.

And are you aware that work is being done on it?

A.

I don't know.

But I am convinced that they are aware of the need, what happens is that the parliamentary landscape sometimes does not allow the addressing of certain norms.

Q.

You investigated the Melilla tragedy and did not find any evidence of crime in the actions of the Spanish security forces...

A.

As a file prosecutor because the only thing I value is the actions of the Spanish agents.

And I could not prove, with all the diligence that was carried out, that the actions of the Civil Guard, who was on the other side of the fence and who did not see what was happening inside the border post, was criminal.

The only point that was noted and brought to the attention of the authorities, so that the necessary measures could be adopted, is that some of these agents threw stones, although it is not proven that they hit anyone.

Obviously, a new asylum law must be promoted

Beatriz Sanchez

Q.

This could be the subject of a disciplinary file, has it been?

A.

It has been, but it has ended without sanction.

Q.

In your decree you endorsed the 470 rejections at the border, while the Ombudsman considered them illegal because they were collective and did not take into account individual circumstances.

Why do there still exist so many different legal criteria regarding the same fact?

A.

This is a procedure that is legally established by the European Court of Human Rights and the Constitutional Court.

What all the agents of the Civil Guard and the Police from whom I took a statement tell me is that inside the border post there was a Moroccan official and another Spanish one, and that they entered one by one and that I know that A diagnosis of the vulnerability situation was made at that time.

And none of them fell into the cases that the law provides as exceptional.

And I do not have any data, neither testimonial nor videographic, that indicates otherwise.

I may have suspicions about anything, and I am not referring specifically to this case, but I have to go to court with evidence.

Q.

That in this case they are the testimonies of the Civil Guard agents themselves.

R.

And the images, which don't tell me otherwise.

I don't see 50 people passing at the same time [to consider it a collective expulsion].

Q.

Almost 500 people were returned in a matter of hours

A.

It was six months of exhaustive work.

Everyone can have an opinion on the matter, but what it comes down to is having evidence.

What the Ombudsman can say is not the same as obtaining the evidence to maintain an accusation.

One can see behaviors that are socially reprehensible, but that are not criminal.

And sometimes you have to have the courage to say that something that seems so inappropriate does not fit into any criminal behavior.

This was an honest investigation and anyone who knows my work knows that I marry few people.

Q.

In your decree you also stated that it was necessary to open avenues to request asylum, such as requests in diplomatic delegations. It has been more than a year and a half since that event and nothing has changed.

There is a survivor of that tragedy who has been waiting for a year for his asylum request at the Rabat embassy to be attended to.

What is needed for this mechanism to be taken seriously?

A.

It has not been improved.

I showed that several of these people, as was later proven, had the right to international protection.

It is a problem and measures can be taken to prevent people from having to jump over a fence.

But we have immigration policies that I did not design.

Like every citizen, we have our opinion on the matter, but why measures are not adopted, I think you have to ask the Ministry of the Interior.

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