As of: March 6, 2024, 11:57 a.m
By: Andreas Schmid
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How to react to the Pisa shock?
In the interview, the former Secretary General of the Federal Student Conference talks about new learning concepts - and Markus Söder.
“Germany is experiencing a new Pisa shock: students are worse than ever before” or “Pisa debacle in Germany: grade 6 for politics”: headlines from the end of 2023 that do not leave a good mark on the state of German schools.
In the Pisa study, which compares school performance in industrialized countries, 15- to 16-year-olds in Germany achieved the weakest performance values in reading, mathematics and natural sciences that have ever been measured for the Federal Republic.
Lennart-Elias Seimetz was not surprised by this result.
For several years he was state student representative for Saarland and general secretary of the Federal Student Conference.
After graduating from high school, he wrote a book about the current state of the German education system.
In an interview with
IPPEN.MEDIA
, the 20-year-old talks about the way out of the educational crisis.
Mr. Seimetz, there has been a lot of discussion about the Pisa study in recent months.
Were you surprised by the poor result?
No, the only thing that surprised me was how it was handled.
The results are as bad as the Pisa shock in 2000. At that time, a drastic change in education was announced and a lot has actually changed.
Now we're so bad again, but you can't really hear what we should do now.
What should you do then?
It is important to listen more to the people who are at school: parents, teachers, students.
On the other hand, politicians must realize that education is the number one resource we have in the world.
If we don't have educated people, anyone who can think and be creative, everything that robots can't do, then it just doesn't work.
But you also have to invest accordingly.
Does this mean that education policy must become more important in the minds of politicians?
Yes definitely.
You have to move away from thinking in terms of legislative periods and need clear prioritization when it comes to financing.
To put it bluntly, billions in subsidies won't help the automotive industry if it can no longer get any workers because education has become so poor.
Digitalization in German schools: “It has nothing to do with modern education”
During homeschooling times, the topic of digitalization came into focus.
How is Germany positioned here?
Not particularly good.
Many learning softwares don't work as they should and there are many failures and glitches.
In North Rhine-Westphalia, the first investments were to purchase an online edition of the Brockhaus Encyclopedia.
This has nothing to do with modern education.
On the other hand, the teachers are still far too illiterate and not up to date with the latest technology.
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In your book you write about “schools in which laying the network cable fails because fire protection prohibits drilling holes through walls”.
Did you make that up – or is that really the case?
Unfortunately, that really is the case.
It is often the case that the good connection to the network ends at the school gate.
On the one hand, you don't have the money to do it differently, and on the other hand, there are still obstacles such as fire protection.
And then you wonder why the devices at school don't work.
The symbol of the lack of digitalization in German schools: the overhead projector.
© IMAGO/Daxenbichler
You also write about new learning concepts.
What do you mean by that?
We currently have this classic frontal teaching in many places.
The students listen for an hour and a half, the teacher gives a lecture at the front, then a few worksheets are done, there is homework and then the students have to somehow be able to understand the lesson material.
But we see that this stupid work has no future.
If necessary, this can also be done by the robot.
We would therefore have to promote qualities such as teamwork or creativity much more strongly.
Practical orientation is also crucial.
When students come home from school, they often don't even know what the world of work is like because they never really get an insight into it.
Future of German schools: New subject in German schools and no grades?
Speaking of practical lessons: After graduating, many students know little about real life, such as tax returns or budget planning.
Do we need a new subject?
I think most people understand the definition of school as a place that gives you knowledge for later life.
On the one hand, this means that you can study anything or do any training.
On the other hand, you also have to find your way in life - and school doesn't do that at the moment.
Very few people can do tax returns anyway, but not everyone is taught something like doing laundry, for example students who don't live in very good family circumstances.
This therefore needs to be more integrated into the school learning environment.
This can be done in a low-threshold manner through various projects or seminars - or beyond that by anchoring it as a school subject.
Other models show that leaving out the grades has no negative impact.
Lennart Elias Seimetz
Should school generally be graded?
We see that the pressure to perform in schools is quite high and that this can have negative effects on students and the school community.
Other types of schools such as Montessori or Waldorf schools show how things can work wonderfully when the grade is not the focus.
Word certificates are an exciting option.
They not only show a number, but also where improvements have been made, are much more meaningful and take away the pressure of comparability.
There are some voices for whom this comparability is important.
Markus Söder recently said that the Bremen Abi “at best has the level of a Lower Bavarian tree nursery”.
Political Ash Wednesday is there to make such polemical statements, but back to the facts: Other models show that leaving out the notes has no negative effects.
The Scandinavian countries do not award grades - and are at the top of the PISA studies.
Let's stay with Bavaria for a moment.
In response to the Pisa results, the Free State wants more German and math lessons.
The whole thing should come at the expense of music and art or English.
Is this the right way?
No, absolutely not.
It is not the lack of teaching in a subject that is to blame for the poor results, but rather how the subject is taught and what is conveyed there.
It is also clear: we need this creative, free, problem-solving-oriented thinking.
Putting two and two together, the supercomputer can do it 60,000 times better than any student who learned it at school.
But the computer can't actually link this information in a meaningful way, and humans can do that.
But this also requires a certain amount of creativity and free thinking.
So I don't think this will be the magic solution to correct the PISA results
About the book
: “Totally overwhelmed, totally broken, totally important.
What school should be like and what you have to do about it.
A student representative speaks plainly.”
Lennart-Elias Seinmetz, Dietz Verlag, published in December 2023, 18 euros.