As of: March 7, 2024, 4:58 p.m
By: Peter Sieben
Comments
Press
Split
The hostility against him is getting tougher, says Bodo Ramelow in an interview.
It's also about your own supposed handicap.
But something else upsets him even more.
Erfurt - Vita-Cola is served during the conversation in the Left state office, and Bodo Ramelow goes into raptures.
“This is an original Thuringian product,” says the state father.
That makes him proud.
Next door is being redecorated: the party has just given itself a new logo and the walls are being painted in fresh red and purple tones.
There is an election campaign atmosphere in the state capital; there are state elections in Thuringia in September.
Then the entire republic will look to Erfurt, at least: because it will be decided whether a right-wing extremist AfD will be involved in a government for the first time or not - and whether the firewall of the democratic parties can withstand the pressure.
Prime Minister, you travel a lot on X.
The tone on the platform is becoming increasingly harsh.
We noticed that you are often mocked there because of your dyslexia.
I make fun of these people.
I deal openly with the topic of dyslexia, with my own handicap.
Also to encourage other people: Don't suffer from your handicap, but accept it and deal with it positively.
And when someone comments: “He can’t write at all,” I always answer: “Yes, that’s right.”
“You see me stunned”: Thuringia’s Prime Minister Bodo Ramelow speaks in an interview about the treatment of immigrants in Germany.
© Peter Sieben
Does it still hurt you when you see such insults?
Yes, that was the case for a while.
But I have found a method that helps me in such moments.
When an injury comes dangerously close to my soul, I get up and walk around the city and look at people.
And then I am greeted warmly and smiled at countless times.
And then I think: “Yeah, that’s the real world.” You have to be careful not to confuse it with the digital world.
And anyone who insults me at X will be blocked at the same moment.
Bodo Ramelow on hostility on the Internet: “If anyone speaks to me honestly, I’m willing to talk to them”
How many people have you had to block?
Definitely 15,000.
Including many bots.
But also thousands from the brown-blue AfD corner and some lateral thinkers.
Anyone who speaks to me honestly, I am willing to talk to.
But not with people who just want to vomit.
Speaking of talking to each other.
In April there will be a TV duel between Mario Voigt from the CDU and Björn Höcke, who according to a court ruling from 2019 can be called a fascist.
Could you imagine something like this for yourself: a television duel with Höcke?
No.
I find the word duel strangely martial.
But if you want to use this image: In the past, when it came to duels, it was assumed that the duelists were both honorable people.
But that cannot be said about Mr. Höcke.
That's why I refused to shake his hand four years ago after I was elected Prime Minister.
I cannot shake hands with someone who wants to destroy democracy.
He misused a prime ministerial election to set a trap.
Are you referring to the scandal surrounding FDP politician Thomas Kemmerich, who surprisingly became Prime Minister of Thuringia for a short time in February 2020 with votes from the CDU, FDP and AfD?
Yes, that was a contempt for our election regulations.
If he had wanted to, Mr. Höcke could have ensured in recent years that the Thuringian AfD was committed to democracy and its institutions.
But no, he didn't do it.
On the contrary.
I won't be able to avoid meeting him at top discussions.
But not any more.
I still don't shake his hand.
From March there will be a regional association of the Sahra Wagenknecht Alliance in Thuringia.
Would a coalition with BSW be an option for you?
At the moment it's all too weird for me.
Let’s take, for example, my colleague Katja Wolf, who I greatly respect…
... who is still mayor of Eisenach, but now wants to run for BSW in the state elections.
Exactly.
She says she wants to be a new offering for voters.
But why hasn't she been like that for the last 25 years?
I could also say: I want a new offer, like a new potpourri.
Bodo Ramelow Alliance.
But then I think: I'm not Pippi Longstocking, I can't imagine a new world.
I prefer to shape the world in which I am actively active.
And I can do that in the regional association of the Left.
Although I don't always represent the majority opinion.
For example on the topic of the Ukraine war?
Yes for example.
I understand the majority on the left who are against arms deliveries.
Because guns lead to more death.
But first Putin would have to lay down his arms.
I am also for peace, but I cannot close my eyes to Moldova and Lithuania - these are countries that are afraid of an attack by Russia.
In Lithuania, Thuringian Bundeswehr soldiers stand for NATO.
But if the Russian parliament suddenly revokes Lithuania's sovereignty, our soldiers will suddenly be at war.
Not supplying weapons to Ukraine will not impress Putin.
But one must not fall into pure war rhetoric either.
Karl Lauterbach recently stated that we now have to check the suitability of our hospitals for war.
I thought: Did he take a shower that was too hot?
The ministers should take care of their own responsibilities and not talk war-drunk to the whole society.
I can get a pulse there.
Back to BSW again.
This is decidedly against arms deliveries.
So you won't get together then?
The BSW doesn't even exist here yet.
These are phantom debates and I don't feel like taking part in them.
Then another topic.
The CDU district administrator Christian Herrgott recently caused nationwide debates because he imposed a work requirement on asylum seekers in the Saale-Orla district.
Is this the right way?
He hasn't invented anything new, but rather applies existing law.
My path would be completely different.
I want people to no longer be banned from working, as is the case with many at the moment.
This state-organized unemployment in asylum seekers' homes is the real problem that I'm upset about.
Just like the debate about payment cards.
Thuringia's Prime Minister Ramelow on payment cards: “Unspeakable discrimination”
What is it that upsets you again?
This is unspeakable discrimination.
And it could be much simpler and much more humane.
We on the left have always fought for everyone to have the right to open an account.
Why not asylum seekers too?
You would then be able to withdraw limited amounts of cash.
People act as if the payment card were a means of orderly immigration.
I'm not naive, I don't want to get a sleeper from ISIS foisted on me here, nor one from the Russian secret service.
We have to be vigilant.
What could orderly immigration look like?
About agreements, for example with Algeria or Morocco.
If people come here via these countries, I can't send them back there anyway, even if I wanted to.
Then it makes more sense if there are common rules with these states.
I am also in favor of concluding an immigration agreement with Georgia and Moldova.
If the Russians intervene militarily, many people will flee.
Also to Germany.
For this we need practical solutions and, above all, immigration offices that are enabling and not just sanctioning.
The authorities have to make massive changes.
Because the authorities are being too restrictive?
We just had a 79-year-old Korean woman with early dementia deported in Erfurt.
The daughter is an Olympic champion from South Korea, her husband is Thuringian.
I was so proud when I found out that the family was coming to Erfurt and opening a restaurant.
But then the police picked up the mother because she didn't have a residence permit.
She wasn't even allowed to hold her daughter anymore.
And I think: How do we deal with people?
You see me really stunned.
We must finally see immigration as an enrichment.
Do you think that such stories and, above all, the rise of a right-wing extremist AfD in Thuringia also deter potential skilled workers from coming to Thuringia?
I don't just have to believe that, I know that.
We get rejections all the time.
Most recently, we had an Indian development engineer in a village in East Thuringia.
A top ace.
He's gone.
Many other families too.
This is also because they could no longer stand the bullying at the bakery, the butcher and the supermarket.
A dark-skinned metalworker said he could no longer tolerate colleagues putting a banana in front of him in the break room every day.
That does something to people.
How do you explain such behavior?
There are not many foreigners in Thuringia.
We have around seven percent non-Germans.
And the absence of something always makes it stand out.
In addition, some politicians are adding fuel to the fire.
The AfD says: Now the German bloodline is being destroyed by immigration, this must be prevented.
Then I think: Yes, you should sing your “Germany for the Germans, foreigners out” in front of the central clinic in Bad Berka - and the qualified specialists from abroad who are helping will all leave Germany.
Well, bravo, then our healthcare system doesn't look so great anymore.
My wife is German but was born in Italy.
If she listens to the AfD like that, she could easily become afraid that she has to leave Germany.
Are you referring to the meeting in Potsdam where right-wing extremists discussed the deportation of millions of people?
Yes.
Many people are afraid because of this.
They come from Afghanistan or other countries and have long had a right of residence.
Students from the Bauhaus University stood next to me with tears in their eyes and said they were afraid of this pointed talk.
A tendency towards polarization in language currently seems to be widespread across the entire political landscape.
Do you notice that the tone has become rougher?
Yes, there is a real disinhibition taking place.
If you look at how the CSU in particular is constantly shooting against the Greens.
This will happen at some point.
Especially on social media.
The tone on X is sometimes disgusting, at least since Elon Musk took over and there apparently are no rules there anymore.
What Green Party leader Ricarda Lang, for example, has to endure in terms of vilification.
This is so unbearable.
Many politicians are increasingly being met with hostility in the analogue world.
Does this happen to you too?
Yes, that definitely exists.
Then I try humor.
For example, I'm standing in front of the main post office and an old man comes by and keeps shouting "Traitor!" and spits at my feet.
And I look at him and say, “People’s bikes?
Are you advertising people’s bicycles?” He then gets irritated and doesn’t know how to deal with it.
Or I come to my Edeka store, throw my deposit bottles into the machine, and then someone insults me.
And suddenly the store manager jumps to my side and says: “You’re not messing with our customers here.”
Something like that blows me away, it touches me.