While the phase of submitting Parcoursup wishes is coming to an end and they must be validated by April 3, we met Emmanuel Duflos, the president of the Conference of Directors of French Engineering Schools (CDEFI).
Place of girls in training, sectors lacking graduates, schools outside Parcoursup that make false promises, importance of clarifying labels... He agreed to answer our questions.
THE PARISIAN.
Engineering schools do not train enough young people every year, yet new courses have emerged, such as bachelor's degrees.
This is not enough ?
EMMANUEL DUFLOS.
We have a big problem with talent pools in engineering schools.
We have a little more than 46,000 graduates per year, for 190,000 students in our schools, 230,000 with bachelors.
Problem: 60,000 graduates are needed per year.
The emergence of bachelor's degrees in engineering schools is quite recent, and accredited by the Commission on Engineering Qualifications (CTI), they have a bachelor's degree and allow one to continue to obtain an engineering diploma, which they mostly do.
But that doesn't meet the need to train more engineers.
This is also true for bachelors as well as for BUTs, but the objective is to train assistant engineers, for a bac + 3 exit, which corresponds to the needs of companies.
“Sometimes we have the impression that if we don't get 16 in math that we don't graduate from Louis Le Grand, we won't get into engineering school, but that's not true”
Emmanuel Duflos, president of the CDEFI
We are facing a scientific emergency: we no longer have the upstream pool in France to be able to recruit and the risk is of losing our industrial sovereignty.
When we talk about cybersecurity attacks for example, it's math and computer science, if we can no longer defend ourselves, tomorrow we will depend on someone.
The same for AI, these are sciences, maths and IT, if tomorrow we no longer know how to do it, we will rely on others.
However, the method of recruitment is varied: preparatory classes are no longer a necessary step to enter an engineering school now?
Our recruitment method has been diversified for a long time, we recruit in BUT, post-license or BTS.
Today, only a third of graduates and students come from prep classes.
We have given access to engineering schools to young people who have the ability but did not want to go through the preparatory classes, for lack of confidence, but also for the difficulty of the competition, for the preparatory environment which may not be please, etc.
Sometimes we have the impression that if we don't have 16 in math, don't choose expert math and we don't graduate from Louis Le Grand, we won't enter engineering school, but that's not true : there are 204 engineering schools and there is a diversity of profiles which means that you can enter in many different ways.
There are such transformations, with AI but not only, that we have a very significant need for engineers, companies are at the door asking us for engineers, whether in mechanical engineering, in hydrogen as in AI.
This is good news for young people, there is a whole range of choices!
There is also a range of choices for schools, how to navigate?
You have to be vigilant about the promises that can be made to you and where you enroll: some training courses have very keen communication and, behind that, the training is not up to standard and the school is not sustainable.
Some families have paid tens of thousands of euros and lost everything: a lot of vigilance is required with regard to overly reassuring communications, particularly for recruitment outside of Parcoursup.
However, there are labels.
Are they clear enough?
A plethora of training courses have been created but guarantee neither quality training nor employability upon exit.
There is a whole diversity, even a jungle of labels: visa, grade, RNCP or even Qualiopi and the families are lost, they must be able to find each other and the label of the ministry, work in which the CDEFI participates, must make it possible to guarantee that the training is quality training, that it is sustainable and that it provides professional skills at the end.
We see that some are not honest and seek to make money at the expense of families.
Read alsoGrandes écoles: the labels finally deciphered
Regulation must be based on the quality of training: we need a teaching staff, monitoring of teaching, premises, etc.
We also need communication on grades and visas: we are talking about diplomas and certification, with a bachelor's degree you will be able to do a master's degree, but with RNCP certification, no!
We need ethics in terms of training so that there is no ambiguity about what we are selling.
There is an issue of clarity and communication for families, especially if the training is not on Parcoursup and requires additional vigilance.
Do you have an example?
Yes, certain courses can offer an RNCP bac + 5 qualification in the field of engineering or preparation for careers as cybersecurity engineers.
At the end you will have an RNCP title, but you will not be a qualified engineer.
You will not have this title and you will not have access to the remuneration that goes with it!
For several years, schools have struggled to fill their ranks with girls, to balance the training a little.
How do you see the problem?
In a recently published study, we read that 60% of young women and 30% of young men have abandoned science in general.
It's rather alarming.
But beyond that, the proportion of girls has been a real subject for a long time: in engineering courses, the proportion of girls has been at 29% for around ten years.
We cannot increase it, despite a certain number of actions.
With the CDEFI, we are alerting to the fact that the subject is anchored well before high school: we must restore the nobility of science and technology.
Young women do not come and the problem starts in primary school.
We must promote science and fight against the stereotypes of teachers and families.
Also read: More girls in engineering schools?
“We need inspiring models!”
We are implementing a certain number of actions, such as Ingénieuses, we are launching communication operations on the question of ambassador and role model with women engineers who have made a career, we have also set up the Cap ingénieuses operation which is aimed at middle schools and primary schools and labels their actions.
The CDEFI participates in the Chiche operation with the Inria Foundation, but also in Tech for all: teachers must be trained in these subjects, few have scientific training, so it is difficult to talk about it for them when it is a major orientation topic.
There should also be national campaigns to combat gender stereotypes among parents.
One of the main obstacles for young women is their immediate environment and families, but these are stereotypes!
The more women engineers there are, the more we will have a truly mixed environment.
Today, for example, in medicine, research is carried out by men, drug tests are carried out on men, so the side effects are those of male physiologies, there are biases.
If you transpose that to AI, it's the same: the algorithms and databases are powered by thoughts that are predominantly male, there is a way of seeing things that is culturally different.
It is fundamental that in a balanced society, there are many more women engineers: in digital technology, in mechanics or in industry 4.0 for example!
We are depriving society of women's involvement in current climate change, it is a societal problem.