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30 years ago, Eric Mazur (Amsterdam, 1954) decided to put an end to lecture classes and established peer to peer
instruction
, through which his students learn about a topic by debating in a group.
Many colleagues at Harvard University, of which he is academic dean of Applied Sciences and Engineering, copied his model, which is now widespread throughout the world.
Now Mazur has torn down the walls of the classroom and each group of five works collectively from wherever they want.
The basis of everything is Perusall, its collaborative learning platform, which it claims are already used by 4.4 million students in the world.
Shun final exams and embrace artificial intelligence (AI).
The Dutchman gave the inaugural conference at the Reinventing Higher Education meeting of university experts that the Spanish IE University organized this month in Miami and to which this newspaper was invited.
Ask.
In her talks she assures that adults should learn like we do in nursery schools.
Answer.
In kindergarten they learn to work together, to interact.
They are crucial knowledge.
Almost all the problems of organizations and companies are integral: people who do not know how to work with others, who do not embrace diversity...
My students are very, very unmotivated
Q.
Do you use AI in your classes?
A.
Yes. They can use whatever they want, any source if – as later in their professional careers – they are able to use them.
But when I evaluate them as individuals, I do it mostly verbally.
They can't look for [the answer] on their cell phone.
They have to know how to think, so I train them to use everything at their disposal, including the internet, ChatGPT...
Universities have to anticipate their education to what will happen in the future, it is the key.
Many people are scared of ChatGPT being a tutor, but banning it is the stupidest thing to do, because students are going to need ChatGPT in the future.
Calculators and computers were also banned in class when they came out.
Q.
How do you organize your classes?
A.
Each team has an average of 25 presentations each semester and each of its members presents at least five times.
Everyone has to be prepared, they don't know which of them is going to have to speak.
Not even me.
A program tells me: “Today ask Pablo.”
And if you are not prepared, the team's big score may fall.
So, if Pablo doesn't do his work before coming to class, the others won't be very happy and he won't feel good.
There's a kind of social pressure to do well, like in society, right?
Q.
You avoid master classes, but you need some theoretical bases to learn from others.
A.
We use structured activities that begin with interactive reading of the textbook.
We use Perusall, which is a social learning platform.
I developed it for my class and now 4.4 million students around the world use it, also in Spain.
I could never imagine it!
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Q.
What does it consist of?
A.
It helps students assimilate information, interact with each other or with the text or video to lay the foundations [of knowledge].
And then we have a series of activities that you work on together, but it's facilitated by my assistants and I.
Q.
In Spain many students have not returned to school after the pandemic.
They think that it does not contribute to them.
A.
Probably the university does not give them something of value.
I trust students more than universities.
In the United States it is different, because the majority are residential, and living there is one of the most attractive things about being a university student.
Q.
In Spain there is an intense debate about the educational use of screens.
A.
The problem is not the screen itself, but the use that is given to it.
I mean, if they are on Facebook all day it is not going to help them advance as individuals.
I make sure they use technology in class for what they need.
Harvard's funding is now due to past achievements, not present
Q.
But your students are at the top.
A.
Yes, they are, but they are very, very unmotivated.
Every year I ask you an important question: if you have to choose between facing challenges or getting good grades, what do you choose?
You would expect individuals who are going to be leaders of society to choose challenges over qualifications.
But no, no, it's the other way around.
Q.
But a Harvard graduate will always have a job.
A.
You are part of a club and they will offer you a job, but there is not only a correlation between Harvard degrees and professional success.
I heard in the development office that the biggest donations to the university come from those who got lower grades [but were more successful in professional life].
They had better things to do [when studying] than simply trying to please their teachers.
Grades discourage deep learning.
If you want to be creative, you have to do crazy things and try them, and a lot of them will fail.
Failure is essential and grades stigmatize failure.
We end up forming many individuals who are afraid of failure, creativity and innovation for that reason.
Some individuals leave the university system, like Bill Gates or Steve Jobs, to be very creative;
Others pass through it and who knows where they will end up.
A.
They receive a lot of criticism from Ben Nelson, founder of the disruptive Minerva University, so fashionable.
A.
I feel very lucky because I have been able to experience and meet the people I have loved, but Harvard was not always a successful university.
100 years ago it was mediocre.
We had a
president,
Charles Elliot [at the helm from 1869 to 1909], who wanted to change the institution and it slowly improved.
When I joined in 1980, there were six Nobel Prize winners in my department and tons at Harvard.
But now there are few.
Just as you can build a brand, you can destroy it very quickly.
Q.
It is said that you are, with the Vatican, the richest private institution in the world.
A.
Very rich, but Harvard's funding is now due to past achievements, not present.
P.
Larry Bacow, former president of Harvard, said last summer in EL PAÍS that he accepted the position because he felt that the university was in danger.
The university is not really listening to what society needs
A.
All over the world.
Just as the calculator makes it unnecessary to use a slide rule, or the internet to memorize a lot of information, AI will make many tasks much more efficient.
And, therefore, many of the people we train will no longer find work.
We need to rethink what we are going to do [in universities].
Q.
Bacow was referring to Trump.
A.
Oh, that's true too!
Society does not value the University now and I think it is because it is not really listening to what society needs.
We are very arrogant.
Q.
What does society want?
A.
I believe that the incredible polarization that we experience, not only in the United States, but in the world, is due in part to the fact that universities were really created to meet the needs of society in recent centuries, but they do not attend to the current ones. as they should.
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