Carolin Emcke, philosopher: “Confusion is manufactured, just like hate”

When in 2016 the German journalist, philosopher and writer Carolin Emcke (Mülheim an der Ruhr, Germany, 56 years old) published her best-known book,

Against Hate

(published in Spanish a year later in Taurus), the great global concerns revolved around to the refugee crisis, jihadist terrorism, machismo, homophobia and the rise of populist movements. Although these have not disappeared, others have been added—the wars in Ukraine and Gaza or the possible return of Donald Trump to the White House, to name just three. The world seems like a pressure cooker and hate is one of the main ingredients in the broth. Emcke's book is now read with an aura of premonition.

He studied Philosophy at the London School of Economics, Harvard University and the Frankfurt Institute for Social Research. She worked as a reporter in conflict territories for more than a decade before establishing herself, with the publication of her best-seller and later with

Modes of Desire

(Three Points, 2018), as one of the most recognized voices against intolerance. She has also received criticism: from those who call her speech “do-gooder” to the scathing comments (in the same direction) from Cristina Morales in her book

De ella Easy Reading

De ella. Given this, Emcke defines himself as a “universalist” and makes a staunch defense of human rights. Invited to the 30th anniversary of the Center for Contemporary Culture of Barcelona, ​​she participated in a conversation with the physicist and biologist Ricard Solé – conveniently titled

Living in times of uncertainty

– held precisely on February 24, on the second anniversary of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. . Before the talk, he attends to EL PAÍS in perfect Spanish, but switches to English, to refine the precision of his words, when talking about the rights of the

queer

community , and about the war in Gaza, an issue that brings out many contradictions. in Germany.

Question:

What has changed since you wrote

Against Hate

?

Answer:

I would have preferred the world to prove me wrong. At that time we could already see authoritarian and racist movements in Europe: in England, Poland, Hungary, France, Germany... with a much more serious power than in Spain, which until recently seemed more resilient to the extreme right. This changed with the power that Vox has achieved. There are now more authoritarian governments, with nationalist ideology and defense of purity and the traditional and natural family, as, for example, in Russia.

Q:

Is it possible to overcome hatred in a war like the one in Ukraine?

A:

Ukrainians do not hate Russians, they defend themselves against an invasion. It was not only an attack on a country, but on the idea of ​​democracy. Those of us who have criticized Putin, when he attacked journalists, the opposition, the

queer

collective , were called moralists,

do-gooders

,

naive

, as if we had to be patient with Russia. We cannot accept that there is a contradiction between real politics and ethics. There is no real politics without human rights.

Q:

In this more polarized world, are democracies more fragile?

A:

I'm not sure. I think that in Europe we are in a process of understanding something, after the shocks of the invasion of Ukraine and the pandemic. We understand the two attacks we have suffered in recent decades: one against what we have in common and the other against the truth. We not only need common principles like human rights, but also tangible common things, which the wave of privatization took away from us. And then technical changes allow the subversion of public discourse, of scientific thought, while regimes like China or Russia systematically organize disinformation campaigns. We are losing this hybrid war.

Q:

Is this why we live in times of confusion and uncertainty?

A:

Hannah Arendt said that reality is what we ultimately have in common. There are governments and companies that are interested in us getting lost in absurd speeches. Confusion is a product, it is manufactured, just like hate. But society also made mistakes. The fall of the Berlin Wall and the stupid idea of ​​the end of history left us satisfied, lazy. We began to treat democracy as property. It's not something we have, it's something we do.

“I believe in the promise of Europe that there is a way of living that is not nationalistic, that has multiple perspectives”

Q:

Are rights guaranteed once they are achieved, for example in the

queer

community ?

A: I think that for

queer

people

, for Muslims, black people, Jews... each generation has to find their own path to fight for their rights. It is important not to disparage either previous or subsequent generations.

Queer

people

, like women, grow up in silence, with taboos, and there is a moment when we make the decision to speak. I am very proud of the movement, of having found, for example, an ethics of care in the eighties with the HIV pandemic. But there is a setback. The idea of ​​cultural wars is dangerous, because everything depends on the big parties not abandoning these rights to please others. It is a great threat. Society pretends that rights are already accepted, and denies violence, for example, against trans people.

Q:

The war in Gaza is also worrying. Why do you think it is so difficult in Germany to criticize the Government of Israel?

A:

I am not the Government. I am a philosopher and I criticize the Government. I'm not Jewish. I belong to the generation of those born after the community of perpetrators, for whom reflecting on the Shoah and the crimes of National Socialism is an ethical obligation. But that cannot change the fact that, as a universalist philosopher, the principles of human rights and international law are what count for me. Unfortunately, the debate in Germany often suggests false contradictions. As if it were a contradiction to take seriously the reflection on the Holocaust and defend the human rights of the Palestinians. This should not be a contradiction. It should not lead us to ignore the suffering of the people of Gaza. Or to forget the hostages. Human rights are unconditional. Who counts as a human being cannot and should not be negotiated. When you look at the Middle East conflict, there are frightening blind spots of empathy. For some, only the bodies and lives of some matter, but not those of others. International law must count, especially for the German government.

Q:

What will happen if Donald Trump wins?

A:

I think what is important for the world is Europe. I believe in Europe's promise that there is a way of living that is not nationalistic, that has multiple perspectives. Obviously, if Trump wins the elections it will be a disaster, but we don't have to look there all the time, we have to look at ourselves and grow.

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