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Gabriel Rufián jokes, wearing that mischievous smile that he lavishes so much: “There are two great entities in this country that you have to wait a while before leaving for dead. One is Real Madrid in
the Champions League
and the other is Pedro Sánchez.” And yet, the ERC spokesperson in Congress (Santa Coloma de Gramenet, 42 years old) does not dare to make any predictions about the future of the legislature, and even less so in light of what happens in the Catalan elections on the 12th. of May. After four months of paternity leave, Rufián has returned with his usual biting verb and that unorthodox style within the independence camp. “My job is to speak to those outside, to those who do not listen to us yet, but who can sympathize,” he explains.
Ask.
She left with a lot of noise and has returned with a lot of noise.
Answer
. I have been here for eight years and it is cyclical to talk about how we are in a very bad political moment, with a lot of verbal violence. Surely we are all responsible. There is nothing more boring than a politician cutting off the media, but we all have to reflect. I talk to my usual friends from the neighborhood and what I notice is a lot of disaffection and disconnection, especially among the progressive voter.
Q.
And how have you seen it these months from a distance?
A.
When you are a mere viewer of the News, you realize that the noise is deafening and that people do not understand anything, the only thing they see is other people fighting. Nor do I want to opt for the easy route of equidistance, because evidently here there is a right that every time it does not govern, everything goes badly. But sometimes we on the left make it very easy for them.
P.
And what is your formula to avoid confrontation?
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A.
Let the right govern… To govern, the right needs their countries to do poorly, whether it is true or not. A reflection that we have to ask ourselves is how it could be that we are at record figures in exports, in industry, in employment, and people have the perception that their daily lives are worse. People don't notice the big macroeconomic data, while oil has [anti-theft] alarms in the supermarket. The left has to do pedagogy and fill refrigerators. And not so much anger and great concepts.
P.
President
Aragonès
was surprisingly critical of the PSOE in the Senate last Monday. Is the relationship with the Government going to be very difficult until the Catalan elections are over?
A.
It always has been. Sometimes I read things and think: I wish everything was so planned and there was really a strategy. We go week by week, depending on what is happening and without losing sight of our main objective. But the relationship with the PSOE has always been complicated, because it has to be squeezed.
P.
ERC now demands unique financing for Catalonia, something that many people on the left see as unsupportive.
R.
Let's call it fair financing or let's call it rationality. Everyone knows that regional financing can at least be improved. There are many autonomous communities, not just Catalonia, that are underfinanced. We must explain it without a person from Zamora believing that we want to harm them. It is simply about ensuring that everyone has decent services. The easy thing is to demonize it and call it selfishness. I don't want a woman from Águilas to wait a year to have surgery on her hip and in Catalonia it takes two days. I just want equity and much more justice.
Q.
What many interpret is that a rich community intends to contribute less to the common fund.
R.
Well, Ximo Puig [former Valencian socialist president] also said that they were underfinanced and no one called him selfish. Or even a certain Feijóo when he was president of Galicia. Catalonia also suffers enormous historical inequalities, has experienced major cuts under right-wing governments, has a very complicated demographic...
You have to make the PSOE uncomfortable, and that is not done as much in the coalition anymore
Q.
Will the independence coalition be repeated after 12-M?
A.
That is the million-dollar question and it would be irresponsible for me to get into that. The only thing I am going to answer is that ERC must reach an agreement with whoever respects it.
P.
Aragonès has already said that if the PSC wins they will not vote for his candidate, Salvador Illa. And then there may be a blockage.
R.
I insist: ERC must assume pacts and negotiations with those who respect it. Catalonia is much more than a fight between ERC and Junts. And there is a lot of noise there too. Illa has a cat in her office, now almost hairless on its back from petting it so much. And she caresses him even more and says: “Okay, okay, keep going, keep going…”. Maybe that's why so many people who didn't vote for him are now considering voting for him.
Q.
To what extent will what happens on 12-M affect the majority that supports Sánchez?
A.
There are a thousand things that can happen here. This fooling around between the Catalan and Spanish right is much more than a fool's errand. This constant veiled threat from both Feijóo and, according to whoever, from the orbit of the Catalan independence right, that they can reach an agreement and overthrow this Government... I am not saying this as an electoral mantra, it can happen.
Q.
Before the amnesty is in force?
A.
The amnesty right now almost depends on the judicial power. And a part of the judiciary is going to try to do everything to not apply the law. If Feijóo has not already agreed with the Catalan right, it is because Vox did not let him. But that may end one day.
Q.
You have warned that 12-M cannot be about a person, in obvious allusion to Puigdemont. Are you afraid it will happen?
A.
It is easy to understand: elections have to be about what is going to happen to all Catalans, not to one. People are thinking about how long it will take to have knee surgery, how much they will pay for the mortgage... Maybe they want to vote in a referendum, but also about knowing if they are going to be fired. All of this is more interesting than what is going to happen to a person. And I say it with all due respect to that person who should be in her house and not in exile.
Q.
Are you concerned that an openly xenophobic independence movement has emerged?
A.
Absolutely. It doesn't matter to me whether fascism wears a
stelad
or a reddish one. Nowadays, being racist, homophobic, sexist, seems to be brave, politically incorrect. Well no, it's a school bully. You pick on the weak. And blaming the situation on the last person in line is not brave, it is the most cowardly thing there is. It's part of our responsibility not to fool around with that. And I also think it is a mistake to think that if we don't talk about them, the better. You have to confront them.
Q.
Will the legislature last?
A.
I say the same as always: it depends on the PSOE. We have to continue legislating to improve people's daily lives. But the left outside the Government must get rid of that problem: the responsibility for maintaining this Government lies with this Government. And they have to stop playing the lesser evil.
Q.
How do you see the space on the left of the PSOE after the breakup and the electoral fiasco in Galicia?
R.
We do not learn from cainism. Egos have always been the kryptonite of the left. In Madrid it is very easy to lose your mind, to believe that you are some kind of sent from heaven with the laws of the left to teach people. And that's when you start to make mistakes. I have seen it in many leaders on the left of the PSOE. It is also true that the PSOE has this drive to constantly phagocytize what is on its left. I believe that the future in this space belongs to the sovereignist left and not to those parties that promised so much.
The right, sooner or later, will govern. We have to take advantage of the time we have
P.
Has the pole to the left of the PSOE in the Government weakened?
R.
You have to constantly bother the PSOE to get them to respond. And I think that today that is not done as much within the coalition. All of us on the left have to be aware that we are in injury time and that it depends on us whether we get to penalties or not. The right, sooner or later, will come to power. It is almost a political law of life. And we have to take advantage of the time we have, which hopefully will be enough, to complete changes and processes. I am not referring only to the resolution of the conflict between the State and Catalonia. Also to social laws such as housing, which is proving insufficient. The left also has to be present in uncomfortable settings and confront. Sometimes I put on some talk shows and it seems miraculous to me that people vote left.
Q.
Do you really believe that the PSOE will give in with the referendum?
A.
I think there will be a referendum in Catalonia with a PSOE or PP Government. It was also said that the amnesty was not going to happen. And I believe it because, without drama and without hysterics, it is the best solution, at least proposed so far, for resolving the conflict. I can't think of anything better. Obviously, there is some anguish on the part of certain sectors, but it is as simple as campaigning for no and winning.
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