SPIEGEL: Mr. Tah, we would like to start with a provocative thesis: Are you the Bayer Leverkusen among the German national defenders?
Tah: How are you fixing that?
SPIEGEL: Like your club, you bring almost everything to the top. But they have not really arrived in the elite yet. You are neither a seasoned international, nor play at a top club. Bayer have been saying for years that the club has a great team, but Leverkusen never really played for the title.
Tah: We have not won a title in my time yet. That's true. But the comparison lags. Basically, I know that more is possible with me. I am so confident. And Leverkusen gets away too bad for you. But I know the solution: We win this season with Bayer a title, then your thesis does not work anymore.
SPIEGEL: Due to the cruciate ligament tear of Niklas Süle and the further disregard of Mats Hummels, a vacancy has arisen in the national team's central defense. Do you think you can close the gap?
Tah: I think that you should talk with action in the square, and not advertise big next to it. I know what I can do. Should the coach give me the confidence, I will do everything I can to please him.
SPIEGEL: In the 2-4 win against the Netherlands in September you lost an own goal and you had several unfortunate scenes. After that there was a lot of criticism. How did you perceive that?
Matthias Hangst / Getty Images
Jonathan Tah made an own goal in the 2-4 defeat of the Netherlands in September: "I try to deal constructively with mistakes."
Tah: I wondered a bit about the sharpness of the review. But I also learned how to judge things myself. I know what was bad and what was done worse.
SPIEGEL: The SPIEGEL single article said: "There seem to be two Jonathan Tahs: the Leverkusen defender, who has shown outstanding games at Bayer, and the uncertain, unhappy national defender."
Tah: Your criticism was still relatively gentle. But it is not fair to compare the performances in the club with those in the national team. At Leverkusen, I've done a lot more games and got the security I needed. In the national team, I am still on the way there.
SPIEGEL: How do you deal with mistakes? Are you pushing them into the back-end corners of memory to keep going, or are you confronting them with them?
Tah: I try to handle mistakes constructively. I have been working with a private trainer for some time, showing each one of my scenes from a game, and then talking about what was good and what I could have done better.
SPIEGEL: How exactly do you have to imagine that?
Tah: We look at tactical things, but also technical ones like my acceptance of the ball. I attach great importance to statistics. I'm not interested in whether my pass rate is one hundred percent. Because I learn nothing from it. I'm more interested in how often I played the ball forward, not just back and side. That's more crucial.
SPIEGEL: Is not it unusual to work with your own trainer in addition to the club coach?
Tah: Our coach in Leverkusen, Peter Bosz, takes a lot of time to meet the players' individual needs. But he can not afford that in detail for every player and every game. But I feel like I need it for myself. That's why I've been looking for someone privately.
Gribaudi / ImagePhoto / imago images
In the U21 European Championship in the summer it managed Jonathan Tah captain with the German selection to the finals. The final against Spain was lost.
SPIEGEL: You've been in the national team since 2016, but have only played eight international matches. They have long been a commuter between the senior team and the U21. How do you see your role in the future?
Tah: For the past three years, I've sometimes wondered, Am I actually a true A-national or just a half? But that is over now, because I can not play for the junior teams anymore. I want to prove now that I can really help the national team. Of course, I would like to get more playing time in the future, but I also realize that more and more trust is being given to me.
SPIEGEL: How do you look at the debate about Mats Hummels? There are many experts who advise the national coach to bring him back.
Tah: You should not get involved as a player. One thing is certain: Mats has done an awful lot for Germany. I always looked up to him. But now another situation has occurred. Precisely because he is no longer there, players like me, but also others are asked to take more responsibility.
SPIEGEL: When you were 16, you were accompanied by TV broadcaster Sky for a long-term documentary together with three other junior hopes. Also there were Sinan Kurt, Raif Husic and Patrick Flügge. But a truly experienced Bundesliga player has become only you. Why?
SASCHA STEINBACH / EPA-EFE / REX
Since 2015, Jonathan Tah (right) plays for Bayer Leverkusen. In the Werkself, the 23-year-old is the defensive chief.
Tah: I can only speak for myself. I always had the will to get more out of myself. When I was allowed to practice with the HSV pros for the first time at the age of 16, I noticed that everyone was good. My talent alone was suddenly not enough. That's how I've learned that I have to constantly work on my weaknesses as well as the strengths to make it happen. And I do that until today.
SPIEGEL: If you've become a seasoned Bundesliga player, how does one manage to become a defender of international stature? That's the threshold you are currently standing on.
Tah: I think it's all about detail work. You have to be ready to really improve every little thing.
SPIEGEL: Is this last, supposedly smaller step heavier than the big, first step from junior to professional?
Tah: It's at least the step that challenges me more as a player and personality. Because I could be happy with what I have already achieved. You know, when things are going well, you get the feeling that you're really a big guy. Keeping focus and focusing on detail work is hard. But only those who manage it will become really good players. And that's what I work on.
Dean Mouhtaropoulos / Getty Images
Kai Havertz (center) is Jonathan Tah's teammate in Leverkusen and is considered the greatest German talent. "He is not a person who will take off at some point," says Tah.
SPIEGEL: Your Leverkusen player Kai Havertz is described by many experts as the biggest German talent. Is that good for him?
Tah: The more you are praised, the stronger the headwind will be if things do not go the way people imagine. Kai can handle it. He is not a person who takes off at some point. Kai is very self-critical, but manages to maintain a special lightness.
SPIEGEL: How did you come to this?
Tah: I remember playing with Leverkusen in 2016 against Tottenham at Wembley. We stood in the player tunnel, and I was very excited. Then I looked over to Kai, but he was not a bit stressed. Later he came in, but also there the same picture: no nervousness, nothing. I thought: How is it that he has felt no pulse at all?
SPIEGEL: At that time, Havertz was just 17 years old.
Tah: Exactly. That was very impressive to see. Since then I know: Kai just plays his game and does not let anything impress him. This is a very good condition to make it to the top.
SPIEGEL: There is a debate about racism in international football. Recently, English players in Bulgaria were massively insulted. But also in the German national team, there was an incident in March, as in Wolfsburg fans German players with a migrant background racially offended. They have Ivorian roots. Have you experienced racism in your career?
Tah: Every now and then there were opposing fans, but never in the teams I played in. The situation in Wolfsburg saddened me. You feel a bit helpless. At the time, I wondered what else you need to do to stop it.
SPIEGEL: Have you considered getting more involved in this topic?
Tah: Yes. But I think we have to stop that only dark-skinned players fight against racism. Then, very quickly, the picture emerges: the dark-skinned against the racists. It affects everyone. In general, many more people need to work for more tolerance - be it skin color, religion or even sexuality.
FRANCK FIFE / AFP
US national player Megan Rapinoe became the icon of the fight for equal rights during the summer's World Cup
SPIEGEL: The problem is that, especially in football, only a few make it very concrete.
Tah: Yes, because many are unsure how the reactions will turn out. Sometimes you just feel that it is rather difficult to speak publicly in public.
SPIEGEL: In England, there is Raheem Sterling, who has become a kind of symbolic figure in the fight against racism. In women's football it is Megan Rapinoe who is fighting for more tolerance. Does that impress you?
Tah: I admire Sterling and Rapinoe. This shows that they have the courage to express their opinions. And it shows that you can really be heard.
SPIEGEL: Would not it also need such figures in Germany in the fight against discrimination?
Tah: Yes, yes. But I think everyone can fill that role. It does not have to be a dark-skinned player or a homosexual player fighting for more tolerance. Rather, it has to become one we and not one group versus the other.