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"If I shout, the artists who attacked me will applaud me. But the world of culture will not open like that."
He is not pressured by the artists' criticism ("It comes from pain. I do not put a box back"), prefers not to turn tables ("I work quietly and brings results"), clarifies that culture is not in the last place ("every time something opens") and attacks Netanyahu : "Lost the shame. Did not get a real decision of partnership with us."
Interview
Tags
Trooper Corps
Ministry of Culture
Corona
Lior Ashkenazi
Micha Sheetrit
Nir Yahav and Sagi Ben Nun
Friday, 20 November 2020, 09:38
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In the video: Demonstration of the world of cultural figures in front of Ganz's home (Photo: Yotam Ronen, Editing: Assaf Drori)
Last month, actor Lior Ashkenazi attacked Culture Minister Hili Troper in an interview with Walla!
culture.
"The truth is that Miri Regev would have done more than Minister Trooper did," he said, referring to the freeze on the cultural world caused by the Corona crisis.
"As much as she cares about the train, she cares about culture, and I'm one hundred percent sure they would have treated us differently. There are things that can not be taken away from her. She's a performer, and how do we say that? I see where this is reflected. "
"Personal criticism is not always pleasant, but I am not moved by one word or another or by comparison to anyone else," Hili Trooper responds in a special interview with Walla!
Culture on the half-year anniversary of the formation of the unity government and his inauguration as Minister of Culture.
"I don't need to be hugged or applauded, I chose a public position, and part of the job is to listen to criticism. When criticism is relevant, I also really listen to it. I'm not the story. Israeli culture is the story. I called Lior Ashkenazi, I had a good conversation with him, I said. To him 'I read your review, and I want to listen to you'. When someone hurts you should not give him a box back. Lior shouted a shout. On the phone he told me he did not really think that way, that he did not mean to say it, that he very much appreciates. He spoke "I think we ended the conversation with an understanding of the way we acted."
Ashkenazi is not the only one who has expressed disappointment with you and criticized you.
In interviews with Walla!
Culture did the same Gila Almagor ("Trooper will not lie on the fence for the sake of the artists"), Micha Sheetrit ("Trooper is a nice person, but it does not help") and Vichy Levy ("We need a minister to turn a table for the artists").
Did it hurt you?
"I am not moved by criticism. I always listen to factual criticism. The situation is really difficult today for artists in Israel. Most of them express their pain, some express it this way and some express it differently. I will not be scared of criticism. If it is not personal, childish and violent But expresses pain - I just listen to her.Two, most of our week is in meetings with artists, directors and people in the field, whether it be opera, music, theater, dance.The vast majority of cultural figures in Israel work with us collaboratively because they understand that pain is shared. "We are on the same side of the barricade. I also called Micha Sheetrit, I listened to him. We ended the conversation and since then we have been working together. Yesterday he was at a meeting with Israel Katz on Israeli music. On the way, I spoke to him on the phone. I appoint him as a member of the Culture and Art Council."
Minister of Culture and Sports Hili Trooper (Photo: Reuven Castro)
There is a problematic appearance here - shortly after Shimit Sheetrit harshly criticized you, you want to give him a position of power and influence in the Council for Culture and the Arts.
This can raise question marks.
"It's a volunteer role and he's the right person to be there. It's the only parameter. He's not appointed to the position because he criticized me. The fear you express is the instinctive fear towards politicians. It could be me. If you constantly want to measure me by what was before we will not succeed. Micha Sheetrit is the right man to be there. The parameter is so professional that even if you visited the Minister of Culture but you are suitable to be the man who can lead Israeli music in the Council for Culture and the Arts - you will be there "(Update: After the interview with the Minister, last night It was reported on his behalf that "Sheetrit asked not to be on the council. Something unrelated to us of course, simply in terms of his times").
And what is your answer to the body of the claims of these artists and some others, that you "do not turn tables" and "do not lie on the fence" for them?
"My method is different. My way is different. I will not change it because I do not believe another way is right. The first reason is value: I will not play in this hypocritical game of saying on the one hand 'how awful the language here is violent' and 'how awful The division in Israel 'and on the other hand to say' let's turn tables' and then step on each other. It does not work for me. If I really mind a violent language or division - then I speak another language.
"The second reason is practical: I do not think there is a match between levels Decibels for the intensity of achievements.
It is not proven.
Our choice to work quietly brings results and has a chance to bring more results than shouting.
I see a lot of politicians, I will not go into names you can guess on your own, you will read almost every day in the headlines, he attacks the one - and I do not see that it manages to open up their fields too much.
People with a lot more political power, a lot more shouting, and a lot more personal insults - do not bring results.
Not to be confused: just because I'm a polite person does not mean I'm gentle.
The fact that I'm a person who respects people and you will not catch me in a personal attack on someone - does not mean that I am not tough.
It's not that soft. "
More on Walla!
NEWS
"Government uses epidemic to shut up": sharp speeches in protest against culture freeze
To the full article
"Respects people."
Minister Trooper (Photo: Reuven Castro)
"Meanwhile, culture is the only field that not only did not cut money but only added money to it, something with all the cultural institutions in Israel. Everyone is grateful that in the hardest year they had we just kept their heads above water. You just did not hear about one closed cultural institution I do not embellish the situation, most of them are still inactive, most of the artists at home, the situation is really difficult. But at the same time the Ministry of Culture owns all the cultural institutions - we transferred all the money to them like every year, 75 percent advances and 200 million shekels. The Foundation for Distressed Artists. Quietly we achieve much more than shouting. If I shout I will probably get two minutes of applause from those artists who attacked me. But the world of culture will not open like this. If I write an aggressive post about the Minister of Health or the Minister of Finance I will get much more "Likes but nothing will open. Naturally you hear the artist shouting, 'Why doesn't Hili shout enough.' But most artists don't say that. Most of them are in constant contact with me, on WhatsApp all the time. It's not hard to reach me, I try to be paperless." .
On Tuesday, it was reported in News 12 that Ganz had decided to set up a commission of inquiry into the Ministry of Defense on the subject of the submarines.
Did you support this decision?
"I think this is the right decision. This is an issue that raises a lot of difficult questions that are important to check. Those who are not supposed to really worry - not to worry. It sounds like there are quite a few people who are worried about this. It is a committee of inquiry within the Ministry of Defense. "It also takes time for all the legal issues to be resolved here. I assume that if the Ministry of Defense turns stones and finds things, the ripples of it can roll to all sorts of places."
Do you not think that the submarine affair necessitates the establishment of a state commission of inquiry?
"It's hard for me to predict what will happen. The work of this committee needs to be exhausted. I guess if serious things come up there ... I don't know if it will develop into a commission of inquiry or a police inquiry, we do not know where it will go. At the moment it is right to do that test. I am glad that the Minister of Defense not only speaks but also does. "
"Ganz does not speak but also does."
Minister of Culture Hili Trooper (Photo: Reuven Castro)
We are this week a year just before the rotation date.
Do you think Gantz will be prime minister a year from now?
"I'm not a political commentator. I do not know what will happen. I know what should be - that Gantz should be prime minister. Because there is an agreement, because there is a unity government, because the partner said it would be without tricks and without sticks. For all reasons it should happen. Will it happen or not? We have to wait patiently. "
Netanyahu said "no tricks and no sticks," but he had a lot of both.
"The feeling is that our partner has not yet risen to the size of the moment. He rose for a moment there in a beautiful speech, but since this government was formed it has not been working properly. And there is no symmetry here. Sometimes it is shown that 'blue and white and the Likud do not get along.' It was not signed twenty years ago and the reality has changed since then. It was signed 9 months ago in this crisis, with all this data, and for me it is sad that the Prime Minister is not able to rise to the size of this moment. There is an exceptional crisis on every scale. The effects of this crisis are enormous. "What is needed now is to connect this country together and deal with health and the economy. Any other occupation comes from foreign motives."
You were one of the pushers for this unity government.
How today do you look at it in retrospect?
"I do not think it is a stage of summaries. In the end when you choose a leadership position you have to choose between alternatives. The truth is that there were two options - or elections after three undecided elections, in a crisis with a million unemployed and hundreds dead. Today we are talking about thousands; The second alternative was to form a unity government. I grew up in a house where you never regret when you enlist for the state. I enlisted for the state. Bnei Gantz enlisted for the state. We put the precipitation aside. We said our personal things should not run us. There is a state here that needs us. So at that point in time we mobilized to save the country from fourth elections. Anyone can imagine what would have happened in the offices we hold if we were not there. What would this government have looked like without this equality. I am not moved by the cynicism and criticism. "We succeed in transcending the need of the state and putting personal interests aside. What is the interest of the state - that is the only question we ask ourselves in the morning. Hopefully the others will also be mobilized."
More on Walla!
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"This is the worst government in the history of Israel. It is even worse than the government on Yom Kippur."
To the full article
"We talked on the phone after the review."
Lior Ashkenazi (Photo: Reuven Castro)
Sorry for the annoying question, but if you really think "Israel first" and really Bnei Gantz, why insist on rotation if it is an obstacle that could dismantle the government?
"This is not an insistence on rotation. This is an insistence on doing what is good for the country. There was a divided people, three elections without a decision. To connect you are doing privatization - also as prime minister. And we paid prices, both political and value. We did not think a prime minister should With indictments will serve. Our position has not changed. We could go and slam our heads against the wall - and now you would see in Ayalon campaign signs - or enlist. My father will take care of the Ministry of Justice, I will keep the culture here, Yoaz will keep free communication, and my son will keep the security of The state. It was our choice, and it's packaged in unity.
"I'll tell you more than that - when I wanted a unity government I did not want unity with Bibi.
I wanted unity with two million people who did not choose me, who think differently from me.
There is value in being together.
There's a broken people here.
There was now this event in front of the Farkash family.
In the face of these voices, the right thing is for the leadership to say - we are going together.
That's why it's so disappointing that at this point in time our outstretched hand does not meet a nurse's hand.
It's someone who's all the time yes, no, yes, no.
He did not accept the real decision of partnership. "
Why do you think Bibi did not accept the real decision of partnership?
" The feeling is that his personal affairs affect his public considerations.
The most prominent example is the state budget.
Everything else can be interpreted.
We signed a biennial budget agreement within 100 days of the formation of the government.
He had already begun to violate it.
Yet the vast majority of economists have said that the right thing to do is a biennial budget.
But there were also those who said there might be uncertainty and it was worth the wait.
Now that we are talking about mid-November there is not one economist and not one politician on the right or left who will tell you that the right thing for Israel is to make a budget for a week, and during the Hanukkah period divide like Hanukkah fees.
No one thinks that way.
They have lost their shame and now admit it is political.
And what is the political price of a country without a budget, where the last budget passed in March 2018?
And there is a truly extraordinary crisis.
We are in a bad crisis, with a million unemployed.
In such a situation to say - I do not bring a state budget because I want to keep an exit station for myself - it is to say my personal good stands before the good of 9 million citizens.
The unemployed are not divided into Likud or blue-and-white voters.
And they need to know that they are paying a price for decisions that stem from personal motives. "
More on Walla!
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"We do not need a nice culture minister but one who will turn a table for the artists"
To the full article
"If I shout, it will not help the world of culture."
Micha Sheetrit (Photo: Reuven Castro)
What time do you put in as a final line?
"I do not deal with ultimatums. Reality is the ultimatum here. Reality states that if there is no state budget until December 23 - disperse. It is true that you already understand a few weeks before whether there will be a budget or not because a budget is not something that can be solved last night. "But naming the dates is just unnecessary. In the end, the question is rolled over to them. It is not up to us but to Netanyahu, he has to decide whether he chooses the good of the state or his personal good."
Are you going to run in the next election?
"Yes".
You're in touch with Torch.
Do you see a situation for reviving the connection between blue and white and having a future?
"First of all, I am a friend of Yair Lapid. I will leave the content of the conversations between us. We do not think it is on the agenda."
So what is the political option you see right now?
"Blue and white will run. I suppose there will be such and such connections. I doubt it will be with there is a future but I am not yet in the consciousness of the election. For me I am not yet in an election campaign. All my time is dedicated to my role as Minister of Culture and Sports."
What do you think of Huldai and Izenkot who might join the political race?
"It's always good when good people join politics. Right now it's more speculation."
More on Walla!
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To the full article
Minister of Culture Hili Trooper alongside Defense Minister and Deputy Prime Minister Bnei Gantz, when he went out to demonstrators from the world of culture who demonstrated outside his home in Rosh HaAyin following the freeze on the world of culture in the days of the Corona (Photo: Reuven Castro)
There is a great deal of justified anger in the culture industry over the fact that the Ministry of Health has repeatedly published outlines that place culture at the last stage.
"Let's get things in order. I took office in May, and by then almost the whole economy was open and only the world of culture was closed. There was a shout then. We worked very quickly to open up the world of culture as quickly as possible and create financial solutions to meet the artist at the end. "The world of culture began to open. In August there were full performances outside. And the halls have already been approved to open in the layout we built. Some were enough, some were not enough. In those two weeks there were over 437 performances in closed halls, and thousands more performances outside."
But it only lasted two weeks.
"I was also heartbroken to see it closed, and we went into a second closure. During the closure the outlines of the Ministry of Health were really published every time. At first they really put the culture at the end. There were nine stages, eight, seven, and each time the culture was at the end with the event gardens. Since then we are constantly with the Ministry of Health on a daily level, not as a recommendation. We said that the paradigm needs to be changed. The Ministry of Health usually thinks that culture is a huge show in Hangar 11, it is a theater full of word of mouth, crowd, thousand people, and once again throwing the culture Finally, we told the Ministry of Health that there is no one culture, and that it is very diverse. Culture is antiquities, it is heritage sites, it is museums, it is libraries, it is small shows, it is big shows, it is acting schools. Our principle agreement with the Ministry of Health is that every beat opens Something from the world of culture. It's true value, a society without culture and spirit is an unhealthy society, and it's economically true for tens of thousands of people, and it's true health. I'm convinced that the world of culture is the world with the safest DNA there is, more than commerce, more than home You book a chair in advance, sit in the chair you were told, do not take off a mask, no food - if all the places were strict
Like the world of culture there was no increase in its morbidity.
I said this to July Edelstein.
At every beat something from the world of culture will enter.
In a beat we had, we opened the Antiquities Authority and the heritage sites. "
With all due respect, the heritage sites are really far from the heart of the world of culture.
" It is true that they are not the heart of the culture.
But the heart of the Israeli world has not been opened either.
Most of the Israeli economy is closed. "
Former Minister of Culture Miri Regev and Minister of Culture Hili Trooper (Photo: Miri Shimonovitz, GPO)
Why is it that, oddly enough, the Big Mass centers are opening, and cultural institutions that seem much safer, such as the Petah Tikva Museum of Art, which is only visited by dozens of people a day, are closed?
"Most of the Israeli economy is closed. Most of the trade in Israel is closed. Most of the malls are closed. Most of the Israeli students have not returned to study yet. Most of the workplaces have closed. That does not mean I give up but I have to keep my eyes on reality. It is a long and difficult story. They will also open the museums and libraries. By and large, we have an agreement in principle with the Ministry of Health that this is what will happen, even if I learned that until it is closed - it is not closed. After that comes the cafe and restaurant phase, and then we insist on opening small shows. "All the details are closed. In phase five or six, the big events may come in."
Have you ever wondered if there is any harassment on the part of Netanyahu and his henchmen in the world of culture because the minister is a white-brush, or perhaps precisely because cultural figures are perceived as leftists?
"I know this thesis. I did not recognize it. I do not feel that my struggle in government is a political struggle. The epidemic is real. It is not that I do not think that sometimes within the government do not involve political considerations. I also know how to do politics if necessary. Everything That will help the world of culture. "
In an interview with Kalman and Lieberman, you said, "We avoided a differential lock so as not to upset the ultra-Orthodox."
This statement is disturbing because it reinforces the suspicion that in the Netanyahu government, political considerations often outweigh the relevant health considerations.
"The conversation was after the holidays, and then I, a religious man, did not hide my opinion - that the synagogues should be closed if there is a closure. Even though it is Yom Kippur, and this is the first time in my life that I have not been to a synagogue on Yom Kippur. So I thought it was right to close. Unfortunately, the government, for reasons that are not healthy for me, gave in to this. In this context, I said the things. I think the only way to deal with this epidemic, which will accompany us for at least a few more months, without closing, "This is the one who is green - to cheer him up and open him up, and whoever is red - to close and help him. We must move to a differential model. Even in the world of culture. If a city is green and if people have done tests - they can enjoy a cultural show.
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"Who will spit - open."
Minister of Culture Hili Trooper (Photo: Reuven Castro)
If there is no jump in morbidity, when do you think performances will open?
Plays?
Theater?
"I learned to be careful. Any statement will not be grounded. What can I say? That it is not zero or a hundred. Probably a culture in the sense of huge performances will take much longer to return than we wanted and hoped. It is more realistic to work on repeating small shows, museums, and repeating. Creative or other things or projects like that. We put millions on performances in nursing homes, in the corona wards or in the broadcast culture. We were in the filming of Avi Nesher's new film, the whole country is closed and there are cinematographic filming here.
"We are in advanced negotiations with the Ministry of Health A special green for shows in Eilat, which is a green island, "reveals Minister Trooper." It will probably be in a separate complex from the hotels that will host a lot of shows.
We work with the municipality.
This is a pilot and obviously we would like to expand it.
We are at a very advanced stage, we have already submitted a detailed and orderly outline.
It has not yet been approved, the details and the launch date have not been closed and it will not be immediate, but the Minister of Health has expressed a willingness to promote this thing.
It would be quite similar to a model that worked in outdoor shows, in capsules of up to twenty people, a distance of two meters, separate entrances, masks, etc.
They as stated have received the outline, now we are in the comments on the outline and when it will start operating.
They really want a loan to start with the hotels, and see what happens. "
Precisely in the Corona crisis, when the artists were in huge financial difficulties, strangely, in 2020 the Ministry of Culture did not issue the foundation's call for independent creators, and the support winners' 2019 funds were partially distributed. In addition, there were almost no awards at all that are commonly distributed in the Ministry of Culture and help artists survive.
"It is true that the independent
artists
did not receive a good enough response in 2020 and it is true that no awards were presented.
These are decisions made prematurely, and it is a very long process.
There has not been enough time within this uncertainty to reproduce it.
I said this answer would come back in 2021.
I strongly believe in awarding prizes, it is very important to me.
I will be careful not to judge Yossi Sharabi (former director general of the Ministry of Culture) who decided prematurely that there are no awards this year.
And the Independent Creators Foundation had a tender in which they contracted with a company whose overheads turned out to be angular.
I instructed them to go out to a new tender, at the end of which there are no such unfounded overheads. "
"It will take time until there are big shows."
Minister of Culture Hili Trooper (Photo: Reuven Castro)
Your predecessor in office, Miri Regev, really contributed to the periphery as she claimed to have done?
"I agree with Miri Regev's view that culture is a right that everyone deserves. Supporting culture in the periphery is super important. I do not want to talk about what Miri did. I can say that in my view you need to produce infrastructure in the periphery. This is the big challenge. The familiar example is theater. "Dimona or the Be'er Sheva Theater, to which we have now added money for infrastructure. It is important that not only culture from the center reaches the periphery but also that the periphery produce unique sounds that only they can produce."
As Minister of Culture and Sports, what do you think about the appointment of former Habima CEO Odelia Friedman to the position of Hapoel Tel Aviv CEO?
Friedman suffered very harsh criticism in the State Comptroller's report in 2016 on how Habima was run, the district court suspended its powers as CEO and was later fired from Habima.
"I think it's a very puzzling move. It's a private body and he can appoint whoever he wants but I think it's a puzzling move."
What did you think of the Adi Beatty storm?
"I tell you honestly - I did not see the clip. I was careful to say a position of principle. I saw that there was noise about it. What is certain is that every woman can dress as she pleases. How she dresses is not an excuse for anything. Obviously women should be respected. ".
In the midst of this great crisis, have you also been able to formulate plans and a vision for the Ministry of Culture for the day after the Corona?
"Naturally the corona is a major part of our day-to-day life, but we make sure to do infrastructural things as well. We're going through all the ministry's support regulations here, which is a bit less noisy in public but it's a way to articulate your priorities. Them, not always out of malice.For example, it is very important to me that there are people with disabilities in society in general and in the world of culture. Therefore there will be a regulation that encourages both institutions like 'Please Touch' and the employment of people with disabilities. We prepare incentives and regulations concerning the employment of women. Adding percentages to bodies for assimilating norms against sexual harassment. "
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A sense of meaning.
Trooper (Photo: Reuven Castro)
When you get up in the morning, do you enjoy coming to work?
"I do not know if the definition is pleasure but there is a sense of meaning. It is difficult to enjoy in such a period. The corona hurts everything, probably in the world of culture. I also come with a house with historical consciousness. Being a minister in the Israeli government has value, being in a position I can do here Well it's a privilege in my eyes. When I get up I do not deal with how much time I have or what sucks me. I deal with what I can do better today for the culture. And I also have proportions. At the end I get up in the morning and have a livelihood and my family is healthy. "So many families in Israel that this simple sentence can not say about themselves. People are losing their livelihoods, sick people, dead people. I probably will not come with complaints."
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