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One dome, a gaping abyss: what caused Erel Segal and Baruch to rave in the studio

Baruch Kara thinks that religious Zionism has given up values ​​for Netanyahu.

Erel Segal agrees that the occupation is corrupting. And what did Aharon Barak, Channel 20 and the LGBTs sin?

We met the two and discovered one dome - with a gaping abyss.

Listen to Tuk Tik - the new podcast of the Israel Press Institute

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• Erel Segal

David Wertheim

Tuesday, 09 February 2021, 00:26

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Welcome to Tik Tuk, the new podcast of the Israel Institute of Journalism and Communication.

Our attempt to provide translation, explanation and context for the deep and sometimes hidden processes that the Israeli media goes through.

In each episode, senior figures from the world of media are hosted as part of the activities of the Institute for Strengthening the Freedom of the Press in Israel.

And this time - with the legal commentator of News 13 Baruch Kara, and radio personality 103fm, Israel Today, Channel 20 - Erel Segal. It turns out that they both also have a common personal-historical secret from childhood - when they studied at the same high school (Hartman) in Jerusalem.

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Tell me how everyone was.

He read: "I do not know if people know, but Erel was a leftist. Erel is the one who presented and challenged the class, which was very Jerusalemite called it, mostly from a center-right political background. By the way, to this day when he annoys and drives me crazy, I remember him fighting For his views and appreciates that he has a backbone that he goes with. "

Segal: “But there are things I still agree with.

Take for example the matter of administrative arrests.

I oppose administrative arrests of Palestinians, it is immoral.

And I will tell you more than that - in many ways Leibowitz (the late Prof. Yeshayahu Leibowitz) was right - the occupation is corrupting. But I take it in the context of preserving a Jewish state. It may be the price we are paying - but we must be careful In this very, to take the warning, to understand how true I am, and within this thing to preserve human rights. Precisely in this I am quite consistent. I grew up in the house of defense attorneys. It has meaning. "I'm aware that it may be my blind spot, but it's there."

He read: "I go back to what Erel said about the occupation corrupting. It is a significant thing. If I wanted to talk about something about each other. I claim that 'the occupation corrupts' is not a political statement but a factual statement. The discourse here went wrong and we no longer know "Leave the separation. Forget that Breaking the Silence has become a seemingly left-wing organization. Even the right, in theory, should understand the problem here. I, your faithful servant, also left the Intifada service with scratches and saw with things that I have difficulty with."

The occupation is corrupting.

Faculty and Read (Photo: PR, Israeli Institute of Press)

He read: "I go back to what Erel said about the occupation corrupting. It is a significant thing. If I wanted to talk about something about each other. I claim that 'the occupation corrupts' is not a political statement but a factual statement. The discourse here went wrong and we no longer know "Leave the separation. Forget that Breaking the Silence has become a seemingly left-wing organization. Even the right, in theory, should understand the problem here. I, your faithful servant, also left the Intifada service with scratches and saw with things that I have difficulty with."

Segal: “It took me a while to break away from leftist perceptions.

I'm a classic conservative.

We have no argument about the facts.

I accept Baruchi's surgery, but I think the situation is not good at the moment, but it is better than the other bad situations.

Take the practices that Alsheikh brought to the army.

They came from the GSS and they are unworthy. It is not okay to blackmail or torture a person, unless it is a ticking bomb. I strongly oppose them because it is a violation of human rights. And I think there are other people on the right who think like that. Israel's security is important but not Overthrows any other value. "

He read: "You stung me at the time on an article I published that dealt with the Supreme Court and Aharon Barak. But when you look at this phenomenon, who would have stopped the torture phenomenon you talked about if not the High Court?

"And you say, 'The High Court is intervening.'

Segal: "The debate over Aharon Barak is not in the context of protecting human rights.

My problem with him is different.

Civil rights is a great thing.

But take the issue of legal imperialism.

Take the issue of conflict of interest, which was born in the justice system at all. "

Read:" The discourse here went wrong and became the discourse of elites, but it doesn't really work that way.

Take Judge Solberg, Solberg is an elite?

And he only recently gave a nod to Ohana for his despicable decision not to vaccinate the prisoners.

And Solberg is a right-winger and a settler. "

(Photo: PR, Israel Institute of Press)

One dome, two minorities

You both actually live in a minority experience - just from a different direction: Erel in a chemical minority experience in the media, who is not at all sure how justified it is, and read - who is perceived as having leftist views.

Not really common in religious Zionism.

Read: "I do not mind being called a leftist but I do not like the identification. I attacked and brought stories and investigations about every prime minister who was here, regardless of his political position. You are right that I am not seen as belonging to the mainstream tribe of so-called religious Zionism. And that's a mistake and it's a shame. And it's a distortion of years. Look at the religious Zionism of yesteryear - it was never so identified with one side of the political map, and even when it was identified - it was never identified with just one leader. Look what happened. Here, we have moved on to a discourse of dealing with Netanyahu and it has become the life mission of Erel and others.

"Erel will cultivate the ideological baggage and education he has - and he has a lot, for Netanyahu - and I can not understand why.

Netanyahu is on trial - he may have been wronged to turn out to be the worst thing that has happened here - but the State of Israel needs to be dealt with.

Israel is stuck because of this four election campaigns!

Four election campaigns !!.

Who will conduct his struggle as an individual.

You do what Trump did at the end of his term.

Once you do not give legitimacy to the state tools that the State of Israel has built.

Reminds you that this is a prime minister who pushed for any attempt by Elkin and Levin to reform the justice system. "

Segal:" What Baruchi sees as a legal concept and an indictment, in my eyes it is a terrible injustice, an indictment sewn negligently in violation of basic laws There's a story here on a biblical scale, Shakespeare.

A precedent-setting case and at this moment I can not stand aside. "

Read - how is it that you are a relatively unusual voice criticizing Netanyahu for the corruption in the religious public.

" By and large, there is certainly recruitment for this great thing called the Land of Israel, and I am willing to accept it, but somehow give up On these values ​​in favor of Netanyahu.

The best example for me is in 2003 when I revealed the Arik Sharon affair.

I remember that after he announced the disengagement to resurrect the Sharon affair.

Instead of going with the truth, because corruption is corruption, everything is from a position.

Segal: "You do not mention who called him Etrog.

You do not notice what happened in Sharon's investigations as soon as it reached the mainstream media, Haaretz, Yedioth - the vast majority silenced it.

"On the eve of my entry into Gali Tzahal, Raviv Drucker said that I am not a journalist because I do not bring stories. But neither Reno Tzurur nor Razi Barkai bring stories. And let us remember that Netanyahu has hated the media for 20 years. He is a half-nation."

Conducted correctly in the crisis?

Netanyahu (Photo: Reuven Castro)

The Corona Crisis: Give Netanyahu a Score and a Media Score - and Explain.

Segal: “In a chaotic process the ability to manage is limited, it is clear, the epidemic is much stronger than you.

I think Netanyahu conducted himself correctly within the corona with all the political distress there is.

There were mistakes of course, but that's necessarily part of the deal.

Regarding the media: News 13 - I take my hat off to them.

They were very careful and despite the burning hostility to Netanyahu, they were matter-of-fact.

Channel 12 were simply a scandal.

If the media says that it is not an epidemic immediately after the first closure, and brings in Yoram Les, it is scandalous. "

Read:" The score for the media is an excellent score.

I think most of the media did the right thing in most of the coverage.

As for Netanyahu - I will surprise you and you Erel and I think the score is not necessarily negative.

He will surely take this epidemic from the beginning in a serious and not delusional way like Trump.

He did the right thing and made mistakes as well. "

Welcome, you published a column about Netanyahu's subservience to the ultra-Orthodox. Do you give a positive score for that?

" I meant to say the exact opposite - that it did not start with Netanyahu, he only included the method.

"There is a bad contract here between the general society and the ultra-Orthodox society, and this is a phenomenon that did not start with Netanyahu."

"Freedom of expression".

Trump (Photo: Reuters)

Between right-wing and bibist media

Let's talk about Trump and Twitter.

Silence or defensive democracy?

Read: "I do not fully understand the unfolding on Twitter and Facebook. They are private companies owned by private individuals. They come and say they are not willing to give a mouthful here to those who you think endanger democracy. I do not see a case of freedom of expression here. It is not the mainstream networks. ".

Segal: "There is definitely such a case here.

U.S. law has exempted networks from editorial responsibility. You cannot sue them for defamation or libel. If you want to block people - take on that responsibility. What is dangerous in my opinion is which lector sits and decides what is allowed and what is forbidden. If you censor - then You also have a responsibility. "

Time and time again it has been shown that the "right-wing press" model does not really work economically.

How do you explain that?

Segal: "It's a question of how much investment the homeowner is willing to put in.

Right now what the landlord is willing to put on Channel 20 for example is one-fifth of what the News 12 news company puts it.

And the same people less and less see.

Regardless, if we were on Channel 20 we would get the benefits they received on Channel 13. Maybe the situation would have been different. "

Read:" My explanation is that if we take Fox News for example.

They did not come around the character of one person, but around the idea that communication with another voice is needed here.

That the back line will be center-right.

But what about the right-wing media in Israel or the islands on mainstream stations?

Most of them are not right-wing programs - they are materials that came to protect one person.

When Bibi went to the right they went with him, when Bibi went to Bar Ilan's speech, they went with him.

I think the media can take a conservative right-wing statement, and make a good press with it.

It did not have to end like Channel 20. It's okay to have a systemic line, like in Makor Rishon. "

Segal:" You have to understand, Bibi is not just a prime minister. He is our Moby Dick. But if you want it From a historical point of view, it will take years back, the main problem is that there are no more communication schools other than IDF waves.

"Once upon a time there were the local newspapers, and only he remains."

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