The tone is playful.
Asked about their vision of Islam, the two defendants chain the worst horrors with astonishing detachment.
Throwing homosexuals from the top of a building as the Islamic State has practiced in its territory?
"It does not shock me", concedes Ali MR Cut off the hand of thieves?
"The value of Sharia is first of all to be a deterrent", argues his childhood friend Frédéric LC, whose extremist vision of religion constitutes the main framework for reading society.
Judged since Tuesday, June 8 by the specially composed assize court in Paris, the two men of 39 and 41 are accused of having planned an attack. On September 6, 2017, the clairvoyance of a plumber intrigued to see cans of chemicals and electrical wires on the balcony of a building in Villejuif (Val-de-Marne) had allowed the totally fortuitous discovery of a workshop clandestine manufacture of TATP, Daesh's favorite explosive. Even if they assure that they were not ready to take action, the two defendants questioned this Thursday offer a disconcerting profile. Jihad completely uninhibited.
Whether it is Ali MR, born into a non-practicing Muslim family or Frédéric LC, converted to Islam in 2008, the two men explain having walked in religion on their own. For the worst. At first, it is from the conspiratorial side that they approach the events. Seduced by the videos of the far-right polemicist Alain Soral, Ali MR explains that the Charlie Hebdo attack had left him very skeptical.
" And today ?
“Asks the president.
"I think that at one point they insulted the Prophet so there is an element of legitimacy", relates this traveling salesman who stopped his studies before obtaining the patent.
"Doesn't that shock you more than that?"
», Relaunches the magistrate.
"No," admits the accused after a long silence.
Frédéric LC is not to be outdone.
When Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi proclaimed the Caliphate in June 2014, he initially believed that this is the work of a Mossad agent
(note: the Israeli secret service)
.
"I thought the Islamic State was a sham," said the former long-term unemployed.
VIDEO.
Terrorism: a disturbing clandestine laboratory discovered in Villejuif
As the analysis of their various digital media will prove, it is by drinking Daesh propaganda films - and in particular the most cruel ones - that they will forge their convictions. Without causing any particular emotions. Thus the video of the Jordanian pilot burned alive in a cage did not shock Ali MR unduly. "At that time I was in a perspective of war and I was rather in agreement, admits the father of three children. It remains barbaric, there is no problem. But what matters was the message: when a pilot gets caught, this is what happens. "
A warlike vision which pushes him, today, to revisit his very personal analysis of the attacks of November 13.
“With hindsight, I see that it was not a good answer, develops this man with the beard provided and the hair collected in ponytail.
Normally when we do something, we expect something positive in return.
In this case, the end of the coalition strikes.
But that led to the destruction of the Islamic State.
So the victims died for nothing.
"
"I was really sympathetic to the Islamic State"
The propaganda will in any case do its work. “From 2015-2016, I was really sympathetic to the Islamic State, claims Frédéric LC who has evolved since his placement in detention. It was the administrative aspect that was interesting: how they managed the populations or the public treasury. And then I thought it was exciting to see people win on the field. On the abuses, I was more measured. "
His rigor permeates his entire daily life.
With his wife, also radicalized, they had imagined a system of very particular "good point" to reward their three children for their attendance in Arabic lessons: homemade vignettes with drawings of Kalashnikovs, bombs or machines. military that the court broadcasts on the screen.
"But there is no symbol of the Islamic State on it," objected the accused.
"So is everything okay?"
», Annoys the president.
"We do not show them off, breaths Frédéric LC It was misinterpreted.
"
A planned trip to Syria
In 2015, the two friends will, for a time, imagine going to Syria. Frédéric LC gets in touch with Rachid Kassim, a French jihadist who has remote-controlled numerous attacks from the Syrian-Iraqi zone. “It was more of a starting point than a project, nuance the accused. It was no further. In fact, no preparatory act for any exile in the land of jihad was noted.
Their reflection will rather be oriented towards an action on the national territory.
“We said to ourselves that there might be something to do, that we weren't going to stand idly by, Frédéric LC rewinds, cropped hair and gray sweater close to the body.
For example, we thought of financing jihadist groups but we did not do so because we did not have the means.
There was this idea to leave but it did not happen.
We said to ourselves: at worst, we can carry out a kind of attack.
It was the last resort solution.
But yes, it was considered.
"
Read alsoTerrorism: Rachid Kassim, the weapon of manipulation
Convinced by the tutorials given on the Internet by terrorist organizations, Ali MR started in 2016 and then in 2017 in the making of TATP in his apartment, taking advantage of his wife's departure on vacation. Each time he invites his childhood friend to filmed test sessions. “But I never took it seriously, tempers Frédéric LC. You have to be an artificer to make explosives. It is not by watching sculpture videos that you become Rodin! "
Despite everything, the experiments seem conclusive.
In Villejuif's accommodation, investigators will find more than 300 g of TATP.
According to experts, its owner had acquired the ingredients to make 3 to 4 kg.
Did the arrest of the two men prevent carnage?
“It was not an attack plan but an idea of an attack, insists Ali MR, very concerned about this semantic nuance.
The idea was as follows: if I had to take action, would I be able to do it?
(…) But it remained in the imaginary mode.
"
Obviously less motivated, Frédéric LC is certain that he would have dissuaded his friend from taking action: "It's one thing to see the actions behind your screen, it is quite another to go into the field" .
The verdict is expected this Friday evening.
