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"My mother's death is like a knife stabbed in the back. Filming the movie was like experiencing 18 funerals" - Walla! culture

2021-08-03T10:00:46.139Z


After winning Cannes, Nadav Lapid returned to Israel before moving to Paris to spread the "knee". In the interview, the director talks about the family tragedy and threats he receives, responds strongly to the harsh criticism of Amit Segal and Ben Dror Yemini, and explains why Tinder boycotted him and he does not boycott Ben & Jerrys


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"My mother's death is like a knife stabbed in the back. Filming the movie was like experiencing 18 funerals."

After winning Cannes, Nadav Lapid returned to Israel before moving to Paris to spread the "knee".

In the interview, the director talks about the family tragedy and threats he receives, responds strongly to the harsh criticism of Amit Segal and Ben Dror Yemini, and explains why Tinder boycotted him and he does not boycott Ben & Jerrys

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  • Nadav Lapid

  • The Knee - Movie

  • Synonyms

  • Awake Torch

Avner Shavit

Tuesday, 03 August 2021, 00:00 Updated: 10:45

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Nadav Lapid after winning the Cannes (Avner Shavit)

About two weeks ago, Nadav Lapid returned from the Cannes Film Festival, carrying the Jury Prize for his new film "The Knee". During the festival, he was required to address every possible political question, so ahead of the interview between us on the occasion of the distribution of the film in Israel this coming weekend, we ended up saying in our hearts that this time we will try to minimize political discussions. After all, what is left to say?



But is it realistic to separate politics and art in this way from politics and reality? Of course the answer is no, probably in a place like Israel. And so, the political issues resurface already in the first seconds of our meeting, with the filmmaker sitting down in front of me while preoccupied with his smartphone and apologizing - "Sorry wait, I'm just signing a petition in favor of Ben & Jerrys." We will return to this ice cream later.



This is also an opportunity to pull out the unique phrase for the Hebrew language - ice cream for the third time. This is the third time we are posting an extensive interview with Lapid here. The first time was at the beginning of the decade, with his first feature film "The Cop", which had a hard time finding an audience in Israel but gained international fame and paved the way for one of the world's most respected Israeli filmmakers. Then came the “kindergartener,” who was declared a cultural phenomenon in France and won American adaptation. We published the second interview two years ago in honor of "Synonyms," which brought it to new heights and won the Golden Bear, the most prestigious award at the Berlin Film Festival. And here's the turn of the third interview, published on the occasion of "The Knee", which became the first Israeli film in a decade in the official competition of the Cannes Film Festival, the most important festival in the world of cinema, and more importantly - won the Jury Prize.



Alongside the professional developments, Lapid has also experienced upheavals in recent years in his personal life.

He had his first child, Noah, his and his partner's joint son, the actress Naama Price, and he lost his mother, Ara Lapid, one of the oldest and most respected editors in the country, who was also his regular professional partner.



"My mother's death is like a knife stuck in my back. I can walk as usual, but every now and then she will rub something and everything will open," says Lapid, who went out for a "knee" scan immediately after his mother's untimely death after a brief battle with cancer.

"I do not like to sound dramatic, but this film was for me like seven. Every day photography was suffering. Every day photography was like a funeral. There were 18 days of photography - a small and challenging amount in terms of production, but personally I was happy to settle for that, because it is not easy to go 18 Funerals ".

More on Walla!

Stormy in Cannes: Nadav Lapid's critical film is applauded, the team of "Let there be morning" boycott the festival in protest against Israel

To the full article

Birth and death.

Nadav Lapid with the award at Cannes (Photo: GettyImages, Andreas Renz)

"I can not have imaginary conversations with my mother and can not play her role, which is part of the tragedy for me"

The protagonist of the film, played by Avshalom Polak, is a clear alter-ego of Lapid: a successful Israeli political director, who fights two windmills.

One mill is the unstoppable death of his mother.

A second windmill is the growing restrictions that the government imposes on the freedom of thought and creation of the spirit world.

And so, when the filmmaker arrives to speak to an audience at a festival in the Arava, he meets a clerk from the Ministry of Culture, played by Nur Pivek, who is ashamed to tell him that she must sign a document dictating what he is allowed to talk about and what is not.



As usual with Lapid, there are a lot of interesting artistic choices in the film. One is not to show even for a moment the protagonist's mother, who occupies such a central place in the plot. "It never occurred to me to present it," says Lapid. "I knew my mother as best I could, and yet I could never expect what she would say. She always surprised me, and that's one of the things that characterized her the most. It's also one of the things that made her such a good editor, because she never fell for it. "



On the death side, you also experienced childbirth. How has fatherhood changed you?



"First of all, let's say how she did not change me. I hate the horrible phrase 'put into proportions', and I will not say that fatherhood did it to me. My child did not make me think my film is 'just a film'. My film is as important to me as My child, and I have no desire to decide between them. After all, being a parent is something that raises your emotional level. If there was a way to check how many emotions you have in your body, like checking blood cells, my numbers would be very high.



"And there was also a difference in the way I shoot. Before 'Synonyms,' I spent a year in Paris, completely cut off from the world and not knowing what's going on in Israel. I would go out drinking alone with people, then come back drunk at three in the morning and think of another scene. Will not repeat itself. In 'The Knee' everything was upside down. Noah was terribly small, and I knew I could not think so much. Instead, I knew I would act on instincts. I was afraid that instinct would send me to a conservative place, because he usually takes us back to familiar places, So I made a decision - whenever I decide on two options, I will choose the strangest option, and I will not let my head fix automatically. "Dead and a child born, it changes your position in the long line of life."

The late editor, Ara Lapid, Nadav Lapid's mother and his professional partner (Photo: courtesy of those photographed, courtesy of the family)

"Sex is always a kind of solution, even if for a moment, and it's a film without a solution"

At one point in the film, the director runs a Tinder-style app and starts corresponding with a married woman in an attempt to initiate a sexual encounter with her.

Assuming that this is Lapid's alter ego, it is of course impossible not to wonder what the inspiration for this scene is.



"Where does it come from? From life. The director writes to her that he had a film that was screened at the Berlin Film Festival. I know someone like that. When you make films, the whole world is your buffet," he admits.

"Everything is used by you - every experience you go through, whether it is a sex club or a dining room in a kibbutz, a lake in the Arava or Tinder. By the way, as soon as Tinder heard that the hero was corresponding with a married woman, they did not agree to cooperate with us. not there".



This is your first film without nudity.

Even a movie with an innocent name like "The Teacher" was frontally naked.



"There is no sex in the film, but there is a lot of sexual tension. I think in the first scene, 99 percent of the viewers say 'until the fortieth minute, the two heroes will lie down three times.' Closer to Venom.Sex is always a kind of solution, even if for a moment, and it's a film without a solution. "In this film, there are tears. People are talking, instead of lying down."



"Sex is not a radical thing. I've seen very few sex scenes in cinema that can compete with a couple living in front of us, having sex and putting it online. You have to be an old-fashioned bourgeois piece to direct a sex scene and feel like you're changing world orders."



In "The Cop" and "Synonyms," the protagonists were young people after the army. In "Kindergarten" the protagonist is a child in kindergarten. Here, it's your oldest hero - a menopausal man.



"All there is in the film is the present. I am a great follower of the present, for a simple reason - he is always right, even when he is completely wrong. The fact that he has conquered the past, and now he is here. It hurts more. Youth is the answer to everything somewhere. We all know that no crisis and no door will remain closed forever. In my previous films there was youth, but in 'The Knee' it does not. "No confidence in the ability to change things. He will probably stay the way he is. What will happen to the protagonist of 'Synonyms' in another five years? Who can predict. But what will happen to the protagonist of 'The Knee'? He will probably remain the same."

"Everyone is sure they will lie down."

Nur Pibek and Avshalom Polak in "The Knee" (Photo: United King)

One thing that has not changed in Lapid is its hallmark: as in his previous three films, here too there is a dance scene.

"People always think because I'm an excellent dancer in reality, but I'm a pretty disappointing dancer," says Lapid when talking about his connection to dance.

"Indeed, as a seven-year-old boy, I had an endless admiration for 'The Story of the Suburbs.' I saw it fifty times a month, at least once a day. Where does it come from in my films? That all the words in the world are not enough. The protagonist in 'Synonyms', for example, says about Israel all the words in the dictionary. If words were sulfur, the country would be buried under its heart. But words are only words in the end, so he says them and does not happen Nothing, so what's left for him to do? Dance.



"Dancing is the alternative way to tell the whole truth. Seeing the characters dance for me is like reading their diary. In my films there are almost no conversations. People rarely talk. They are parallel lines that can travel from here to China. Everyone gives their monologue in turn, and only From time to time there are moments of kindness that connect them - the dance, for example, that bypasses everything that does not allow them to touch. "



In "The Knee," Lapid fulfills an old dream, and dances his protagonist to the sounds of Vanessa Pardi's "Be My Baby."

"When I was a kid, I saw on TV a girl with a gap in her teeth singing 'Zhu La Texi,' and I knew our destinies were intertwined," he recalls.

"I knew that one day I would come to Paris and find her, that one day I could say in my own way, 'Vanessa, me my baby.' It turned out that Vanessa really likes my movies. I wrote to her, and she answered me by email! Of course my heart skipped a beat. She gave me the rights almost for free, and even talked to Lenny Kravitz to give him his part in the song. "A play in the theater that day. She congratulated me on the award, and I hope to see you again in Paris."

Nadav Lapid with "Knee" star Nur Pivak (Photo: PR)

"To say I dedicated the film to an innocent witness? How much contempt can you have for your profession as a journalist?"

A faculty member is said to be an intelligent man, but when I hear him call for a boycott of the film, I wonder if he does not think it is utter nonsense to come out with such a call.

I believe he is capable of much more than this statement "

And dreams about Vanessa Prady, back to the Israeli reality. This is also the opportunity to explain why the film is so named - "The Knee" is a greeting from Ehad Tamimi, and Lapid refers to a tweet published at the time by Bezalel Smutrich, in which he wrote that the Palestinian girl "had to get a bullet in the knee."



The protagonist of Lapid's film plans to direct a film inspired by Tamimi, and at the beginning of "The Knee" we watch him audition. The actress who is being tested for the role of the Palestinian is played by Millie Eshet, and I wonder why an Arab actress was not cast. "Because Ahad Tamimi is an image, it is a representation, and what interests me is the way art deals with political representations," he says. "I liked the elimination element. The director sees Tamimi as a girl with curls. The other actress who is being tested for the role (played by Neta Roth) also puts curls in honor of the audition. Ahad Tamimi is an image and she is a great image. I would very much like her to see the film."



As far as Lapid is concerned, this is also an opportunity to put things into perspective: "Ben Dror Yemini said that I dedicated the film to Ahad Tamimi. Factually, this is simply not true," he emphasizes. "How much should you despise your profession as a journalist for not doing a basic investigation? And this is another journalist whose flag is 'war in the industry of lies'. I have no problem being attacked, but at least you will know what you are talking about. He's written the worst things about him, but at least he's seen before he talks about him. More than that statement. "



The last few days are very busy for Lapid.

On the one hand, it absorbs a sequence of abusive messages.

"I get ten messages a day from people wishing me all kinds of deaths, and their hearts are full of happiness that my mother is dead," he says.

"I also heard someone tell her friend that 'the Nazis would probably love my movie.'



But this deal also includes unprecedented benefits for Lapid, which he did not expect.

He has a long and tense history with the Israeli academy, but it seems that "The Knee", perhaps his most defiant film, brings hearts together between the parties.

Nadav Lapid and Nur Pivak land with the award in Israel (Photo: Walla !, Avner Shavit)

"When Naftali Bennett goes to make an exit, he's like a shopkeeper who once opens the grocery store here and once opens it there. I'm not going to Paris to make an exit."

"The 'Knee' academic foundations are the most beautiful experiences I have had in Israel," he says. "The reactions are very emotionally powerful, and I feel their truth. On the one hand, this is a film that has the potential to be my hardest, sharpest and most abusive, but on the other hand it can also be a kind of reconciliation of mine with this place and its film world. "Accepting so far, it seems to me that people here understand him better than the most sophisticated critics in France or the United States. They feel he speaks directly and without partitions about this moment in this place in our lives. Academy funds have given me a sense of belonging that I have not had in years."



"I wrapped my soul in the soul of Israel, in the twists and turns of love and hate, and I feel like I know how to sing only one song that I sing all the time - a song about this place," he continues. "'The Knee' is the most Israeli film there is, and my next film is also about Israel and will be shot there."



Still, in two weeks Lapid and his family will move to Paris - a media move that of course contributed to the media and public hostility towards him, although it should be noted that he is far from being the first Israeli to live abroad for a while. for example.



"When Naftali Bennett goes to make an exit, he is like a shopkeeper who once opens the grocery store here and once opens it there. I do not go to Paris to make an exit, I have nothing practical to do there," says Lapid.

"I have no professional project in Paris. I may return there after two years, and I may live and die there. I travel because I want my son to understand that Israel is just a piece of land between the sea and the desert, and know that there is no one country, but there are a million countries. "There's also the issue of attitude to culture. How to treat cinema in France and how to treat it in Israel. When an Israeli athlete won a medal at the Olympics, Herzog and Trooper raced for phones to be the first to call. And that very much represents the mood here. "



But Hili Trooper wrote a beautiful Facebook post about your win.



"True, he wrote beautifully."

An unprecedented achievement.

Nadav Lapid in Cannes (Photo: GettyImages)

"Unlike many leftists, the Edri family does not operate from any sense of moral superiority. They do not think every film should be like them."

Many of those who have attacked Lapid in recent weeks have referred to the fact that he is attacking the country from which he even received funding.

He himself has addressed this before and now summarizes his arguments in three sections.

"A. - Those who do not think that a state should fund critical cinema do not understand anything in art and do not understand anything in democracy," he declares.

"B - I am full of reverence for the money I receive, so I am committed to telling my whole truth in every way and not compromising on an inch. C - This is the most Israeli film there is, but only 1.7 percent of its budget is Israeli money. The film received refusals from local bodies "Even after he was chosen to participate in Cannes. An inner voice inside me tells me that it was not because of dissatisfaction with the quality of the photography work."



However, Lapid wins the back of the most powerful private body in the Israeli film industry - the Edri family's United King film company, which distributed his latest films as well. The connection between him and them is unnatural. He points to the joint list, they were considered close to Netanyahu and Regev; He creates exclusively artistic and challenging cinema, and they also produce and distribute hits like "Release My Edge."



"The Edri family is first and foremost a family of people who love cinema, and my films try to be great cinema parties," says Lapid. "I remember Moshe Edri's phone after watching 'The Cop.' He was one of the first to understand my humor. They not only distribute movies, but also understand them. One of the most amazing phones on 'The Knee' came from Liron Edri.



"They have no illusions about who I vote for, and it does not matter. Unlike many people from the other camp, they do not act out of some sense of moral superiority. They do not think every film should be like them. Many left-wing filmmakers feel that absolute justice is in their hands, "Every work of art will be measured according to it. The Edri family is sober in their view of art."

A family of filmmakers.

Nadav Lapid with his father Haim, with whom he wrote the script for "Synonyms" (Photo: Reuven Castro)

In addition to a film to be shot in Israel, Lapid is working on another project. All that can be said at the moment is that this is an American mini-series, based on a novel published in recent years, and he is writing it with one of the screenwriters of "Heirs".



This promising project illustrates Lapid's status. Whatever you say about it, it is a world-renowned creator who is highly regarded in both France and the United States. But here, too, politics is mixed with art, and as usual in Israel, the question arises here as to whether the international sympathy for him stems from his sharp criticism of his homeland.



At the press conference after winning the award at Cannes, the jury appeared before us. Director Mattie Diop and director Culver Mendoza Filo, two of his friends, praised the cinematic performance of "The Knee" and cited it as a reason for awarding the prize. The chairman of the jury, Spike Lee, did a disservice to the Israeli director when he referred mainly to the political dimension, and even hinted that the award was given as a kind of medal of heroism to the filmmaker, for "his courage to endanger himself like this.



" Political. I really do not pretend to be like that, "says Lapid." As for what Spike told me - I do not know if this is the person who was closest to my film within the jury, and I do not think he is the reason for the award I received. You were in Cannes, and you know they talked about my film there as an artistic sensation. "By the way, according to McCann, the American director was not particularly dominant in the decision, and his favorite films in general came out empty-handed.

Bear hug.

Spike Lee, Chairman of the Jury at Cannes (Photo: GettyImages)

Let's go back to talking about cinema, and it is impossible to talk about your filmmaking without talking about your collaboration with photographer Shay Goldman.



"Shay and I see the world and consequently the cinema, horizontally. I believe that everything that happens - happens for the first time, and he believes that everything has happened and everything has been. I am a goldfish and he is an elephant. We are different worlds that coalesce with each other. Criticism and lack of admiration.



"I believe a photographer is not just a photographer.

He's an actor with a camera.

The camera does not just move.

It is connected to a hand that is connected to a body within which there is a beating heart and a mind that lives, feels and understands the situation.

I do not write angles and camera movements as if they were a mechanical thing.

I write emotions and feelings and thoughts, and the camera recreates them.

To me, Shai is an actor, just like Avshalom Polak and Nur Pivak. "



Shai had another film in Cannes, "Let There Be Morning" by Eran Kolirin. Also to the editor of the film, Nili Feller, who also edited "Where's Anne Frank" by Ari Pullman. What was it like working with her, and what was it like for her to get into your mom's shoes?



"I could not find anyone better than her. She is a great partner, but also completely independent in her thinking, and she is full of passion. We went out to edit this thing as an adventure, and I believe this project is just the beginning for us."



Lapid comes from a family of filmmakers. His mother Ara was an editor, his aunt Tova who is an editor and director, and his cousin Yair Asher and his brother Itamar Lapid are also directors. At the upcoming Jerusalem Film Festival, the two will present their first feature film, "How You Let It Happen."



"We are like the families who used to weave rugs, only with us it is a cinema," says Itamar Lapid's brother.

"My brother is the most independent person in his mind that I know. Yair and his film is stunning and not a millimeter similar to the films I make. I did not try to give him advice, but even if I did he would not receive any of them because we do not speak the same language."

"Artistic Splash."

Avshalom Polak in "The Knee" (Photo: United King)

ולסיום, נחזור לנקודת ההתחלה. למה חתמת על העצומה בעד בן אנד ג'ריס?

"כי אני אשמח אם החרם שלהם יהיה רק ההתחלה. רון כחלילי כתב פוסט בפייסבוק שנראה כאילו אני מנסה לעשות אחורה פנה, לקחת בחזרה את הדברים שאמרתי בקאן ולהוכיח את אהבתי לישראל או משהו כזה. אז אני לא מתנצל על כלום, ואני אומר שנית: החברה ישראלית חולה. אם בכלל יש דרך לרפא את המחלה, זה אם יהיו אלף בן וג'ריס, אבל אל תהפוך את מה שאמרתי לכותרת של הכתבה הזו".

אתה בכלל אוהב את הגלידה הזו?

"לא ממש".

עשיתי חישוב שפגשתי אותך כבר בשמונה ערים שונות ברחבי העולם, ומעולם לא ראיתי אותך אוכל, וגם בסרטים שלך הגיבורים לא אוכלים יותר מדי.

"אני לא נזיר, אבל אני כמעט ואוהב רק לעשות סרטים, אז זה כנראה בא משם, אם כי בחוסר מודעות. עם זאת, הסרט הישראלי הבא שלי יהיה על זוג אמנים שמוכרים את עצמם לעשירים כדי לאכול טוב".

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Source: walla

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