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Oded Kotler: "Extreme nationalism is a terrible curse, which has no cure but a change of government"

Disappointed with the theaters ("Get rid of the old men"), angry at Ivgi ("There's something sick of him"), agrees that eternal directors should go ("This is also true in politics") and apologizes to his ex-wife Laura Rivlin ("For the slap I said I gave"): The veteran actor He is no longer afraid of death, and discovers what he really regrets

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• Oded Kotler

• Oedipus

• Laura Rivlin

• You will want a website

• Moral Tal

Sagi Ben Nun

Friday, 03 September 2021, 00:00

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Actors Oded Kotler and Dan Shapira in the play "Oedipus" by the Creator Theater (Stills: Gal Daren, Video: Courtesy of the Creator Theater)

In the play "Ashamed to the End" by Hanoch Levin, the character of Zimmer Fry says: "I regret what I did and what I did not do." Oded Kotler, the Israeli theater grant holder at the age of 85, takes a different approach and says that he regrets only what he did and not what he did not do. As Yom Kippur approached, we checked out the regrets of the actor, director and theater founder, who is currently starring in a theatrical play "Oedipus," and a spoiler has already been made for you: his regrets do not include murdering his father and incest with his mother.

At the beginning of your journey you gave up the role of cement. Theater critic Michael Handelsalz wrote that you are probably the only one who has done this in the history of world theater. Regret it?

"I'm not sorry for anything I did not do. If there are things I regret it are things I did. So here and there I tried not to do things I thought I would regret if I did them," Kotler says in an interview with Walla! culture. "One of them was 'Hamlet.' "For the role of 'Hamlet', because I felt I could not follow the director's instructions and do weird things. It became known among all the actors. At the beginning of my career I learned that I did nothing, instead of being known for what I did."

In 1967 you won the Best Actor Award at the Cannes Film Festival for your role in the film "About Three Days and a Child". Do you feel remorse for not leveraging this into an international career?

"I was brought to the table on a beautiful tray an offer for an international career. I was offered a career as a Hollywood actor. I met with 12 executives of one of the big production companies in Hollywood, when I entered the room everyone got up because they were told - he's important, he got an award. They offered me a lead role. , Where I had to speak with a cockney accent. I said to the 12 principals: 'What ?! I do not know cockney. I'm Israeli.' They said: 'You will learn.' "They said, 'Okay, so we'll give you a dubbing.' To the land. "

"Not sorry about anything I did not do."

Oded Kotler (Photo: Reuven Castro)

"I did not feel like missing out on an international career. I did exactly what I loved. I loved contributing to Israeli culture, it was more important to me than making a hollow career abroad. And I was afraid of losing an identity, "he emphasizes.

Repentance in the field of relationships is there?

" I broke up because I thought that three and a half years of beloved, close, intimate and pampering friendships - are enough and need to move on. And I hit on a sin for dismissals that I fired when I ran the Haifa Theater. Due to budget cuts imposed on the theater I had to fire some people for no artistic reason. I did not sleep at nights because of it, and to this day it haunts me. "At least one of those who was fired is alive, and he is angry with me to this day, and feels that he has been wronged, he felt that I was underestimating his talent or value, but that was not the intention."

In an interview with Walla!

Culture, actress Laura Rivlin told of an incident that happened while you were married.

She played the unforgettable role of Pogra in the play "Hefetz" which she directed, and according to her after it was hard for her not to burst out laughing on stage - you came to her at break in anger and gave her a slap, and she cried.

Will you hit on sin for that too?

"I really do not remember a slap. Absolutely not. But if she says, she's a truthful girl, then probably ... so I'm over the pages of the site apologizing for that slap."

More on Walla!

The craft of the animals

To the full article

Asks for forgiveness.

Kotler with his ex-partner, actress Laura Rivlin, 2005 (Photo: Reuven Castro)

Kotler is currently starring as the blind prophet Tirsias in the classic play "Oedipus" by Sophocles in the Created Theater, adapted and directed by Avishai Milstein and translated by Shimon Bouzaglo. Alongside him are Dan Shapira, Anna Stefan, Eran Bohm, Bahat Kalchi, Motzi Aviv and Ram Aharoni. The play raises the question of whether Oedipus is a revered ruler willing to sacrifice himself to save his country from an outbreak of epidemic, or a deceitful politician who hides a black hole in his past.

Work on the play began during Netanyahu's rule and against the backdrop of the Corona, and director Milstein found the play highly relevant these days, given his involvement with a leader who crashes while trying to find a cure for the plague. And if that's not enough, then shortly after the show's rise, Dan Shapira, who plays Oedipus, falls ill in Corona, so some of the plays were postponed (the next plays are on September 4, 9 and 11).

Kotler agrees that the play is appropriate for this period as well.

"Also because it reminds us that the government corrupts, and the road to conquering the government is full of bumps, corner circles and deeds they will not do. And also because there is an epidemic in the play. We do not know what epidemic was there, but know that an epidemic is a good parable "

"I loved contributing to Israeli culture, it was more important to me than making a hollow career abroad." Kotler (Photo: Reuven Castro)

After a 70-year career as an actor, director, theater founder and one of the cultural giants, you are more than deserving of continuing to get lead roles on the biggest stages. But now you are playing a non-lead role in the created fringe theater, which is admittedly appreciated, but small.

"First of all, I can not do everything I want. Working on a certain play, which requires a lot of effort and daring and money sometimes - sometimes requires a large and institutionalized framework. And the institutionalized framework does not so much want to risk all sorts of things as hiring an old man like me. "And I have no complaints. You know, it's a conventional way of thinking."

It is unfortunate that the big theaters are largely turning their backs on older actors.

"The Israeli theater does not know how to give roles to its elders. Although it can be said in praise of Noam Semel (CEO of Habima - SB) and the late Omri Nitzan, that they provided roles for Yossi Carmon until the moment he can no longer, and Yossi Gerber almost until his death. "Hannah Maron somehow did a great and wonderful role, the 'suitcase packers', but she cried about not being given it. That is: giving some roles to the old people. But in general, they are told - hello, thank God, we passed away. We will go to the younger generation."

1/6 (Photo: Reuven Castro)

"And the big theaters also do not want to deal with things that do not appeal to the general public. So a play like 'Oedipus', a Greek classic in a modern adaptation, is done in the tiny Christian theater, in Bat Yam, located near the Holon cemetery and the Abarbanel madhouse, which does very special things," he says. adding. "Dan Shapira could not do 'Oedipus' in the chamber, because no one offered him, but in the theater he was offered, so he could do it, and he worked hard for pennies. He did not come for the money. The theater trend should be encouraged. "And give the fringe more money. And the small theaters should be encouraged also because in the Corona period it is safer to see a show in an audience of dozens of people with masks, and not hundreds or thousands."

The previous collaboration you had with Avishai Milstein, the director of "Oedipus", was when he directed you and your ex-partner Laura Rivlin in the play "The Banality of Love" at Beit Lessin written by Savyon Liebrecht. The play dealt with the love story of the Jewish Hannah Arendt and Martin Heidegger, who later joined the Nazi party. I guess it was not easy to play his character.

"It was very difficult for me to play Heidegger, mainly because of a certain speech he gave during the Nazi days at the university, in which he recommended that students raise their hand. His speech, with the swastika on his arm, caused me stomach pains and I went to vomit. In an extraordinary way, who understood the essence of this difficulty, he told me - we will not rehearse this speech until the last minute. I did not want to rehearse. "The play in Freiburg, Germany, in a theater near the university and in a destroyed synagogue, in front of a German audience. In this section, there was a resounding silence in the audience, that is, a silence that has a voice.

More on Walla!

"I heard Miri Regev say she's a black panther, and I thought: WTF ?!"

To the full article

"Israeli theater does not know how to give roles to its elders."

Kotler in the role of the prophet Tirsias in the play "Oedipus" (Photo: Gal Daren)

After the revelation of the Ivgi affair in Walla !, Oded Kotler, who was a good friend of Moshe Ivgi and worked with him for many years, was one of the first two well-known actors who was not afraid to sharply criticize the former king of the industry. All the other actors and actresses were silent for a long time until they visited him on their behalf. About three months ago, in the "Fact" investigation in Keshet 12, signed by Eyal Gonen and Sarit Magen, it was revealed, among other things, that Ivgi sexually assaulted a woman from the circle closest to Kotler. Ivy knew she was very close to his friend but that did not stop him, and this hurt Kotler and made him very angry. "There's some kind of unhealthy obsession with it. There's some sickness in it."

"He was a very good friend of mine, and when I found out what he did close to me - it was a very hard feeling for me," Kotler tells Walla! culture. "And one of the things I wanted to do was confront Ivgi. Come into a sharp and aggressive confrontation with him. I got really upset."

And what did you think about the fact that Ivgi, who was convicted and sentenced to 11 months in prison, did not confess to a single case of assault and harassment out of the hundreds of cases witnessed by dozens of women, and expressed no real remorse?

"In an interview with him, he said a sentence that made me jump: 'I apologize to any woman who feels hurt by me.'

More on Walla!

Dalit told me how Ivy attacked her.

Anna told the same story.

I realized that it should not be silenced anymore

To the full article

"Unhealthy obsession."

Ivgi (Photo: Flash 90, without)

In the play "Oedipus" in the theater, a Kotler play was created alongside Anna Stefan, who was one of the first and main witnesses in the Walla! Who exposed the Ivgi affair, which testified that in the series in which she was supposed to play alongside him, Ivgi sexually assaulted her, and after she objected to him - she was fired.

"Anna is very brave," Kotler says. "She was exposed to something she may not have known she would pay for, not necessarily from Ivgi himself but from idiots who might say, 'What should we get involved in working with her?', While she was the victim, and her actions should be seen as heroic. "When he revealed to me that in some play I was doing, Ivy harassed another actress. I did not know anything. No one complained. Apparently it was not in the atmosphere to come and complain, because they were afraid of this stigma, which Anna Stefan was not afraid of."

"It took us such an Anna Stefan to testify about Ivgi," he adds, "but I do not go against those who were afraid to come to public testimony. Because I know society, and know what distortions are born of screaming truths. I mention my beast speech. People attacked me. "Although some of them themselves understood what my words meant, and knew that I did not mean Likud members, but used it as a weapon against me. Sometimes a screaming truth leads to disgrace and disgrace that are out of place."

"Very brave."

Anna Stefan (Photo: Reuven Castro)

The musical play "Od Hozer Hanigun", which deals with Natan Alterman, was recently staged, written by Moti Lerner and directed by Moshe Kaftan. You were married to Tirza Atar, Alterman's daughter, and your character appears in the play and is played by Tal Musari. I know you watched the first show. Did you like

"After the show I went to Tal Musari and told him - I'm sorry to tell you, you are better than the original. And he is quite happy. Musari is a talented and charming person. There is a talented team of first class actors and actresses. After the show, Musari, Riki Gal and Shlomit Aharon Well, what did you think of the show? I told them, guys, I'm what it's biased. I'm the wrong person to ask him. "Alterman, and all sorts of other things. I can't express a right opinion. I got the impression that the audience really, really enjoyed it."

How faithful is the play to the reflection of reality?

"I never called Alterman 'Mr. Alterman.' I called him Nathan. We were very close, embracing and loving, and there was no formality. All the characterization of the characters in the play was far from reality - Rachel, Tirza, none of them resembled my relatives. "The play sails into the land of the imagination. The play brings up most of Alterman's canon songs and wills. But no one brings up the plays and roles that Rachel Marcus did."

"Better than the original."

Kotler after the play "Od Hozer Hanigun", with Tal Musari who played his character (Photo: Courtesy of the filmed, Tal Musari)

In the second act, there is a scene in which Tirza Atar's character is already after the breakup with you, and in a relationship with Benjamin Slur, but she wants to get back to you.

Then there's some Cat Fight between your character and Slur's character.

In a dramatic moment Benjamin raises a chair and threatens your character.

Was it like that in reality?

"There was no chair. Cat Fight was, Benjamin was angry with me for some reason, I was not angry with him, he did something that would not be done, and more I will not say. And maybe there was her desire to come back to me. A lot of couples say 'let's try to break up.' Whoever says 'let's try to break up' - will succeed. I do not remember those who returned. Here too, naturally, there was experience, no matter which side it came from. I love Tirza's memory. I will never love Tirza and her love for me. It's one of the foundations of my emotional life. Do not forget that we were on the verge of adolescence. Today no one marries at this age. Then there was the flame of love. But we probably should not have married. "Like that? Trying to reconnect wires. And like I said, it's not something that works."

Many names of theater directors have been the same names for decades, and it is problematic that there are not enough exchanges at the top. What will be saved for this?

"There is absolute justice in the idea that managers need to be moved. Management and positions of power are strong, and the character of a person is weak. And all human beings are relatively weak. You have to know how to make a limit. Once they said five years, then eight years. That's right. "The last leader of the Israeli government, who is now spending time abroad, does not want to leave the chair, he is cursing his competitors, defaming them from end to end, even though they are making great efforts to return a country to a certain kind of normalcy. They are trying."

So you are happy with the change government?

"I tolerate some of the things the government is doing, and I do not tolerate at all the lack of treatment of the Palestinian issue, and I think they will end up falling because of it if they continue to do so. If they continue to think the solution is killing, injury, ruined homes, family separation, arrests. I think "That it is an unprecedented crime and we will pay for it. Anyone who does not understand this has not read A-B in history."

"There is absolute justice in the idea that managers should be moved out of place."

Oded Kotler (Photo: Reuven Castro)

In your autobiographical book you quote your psychologist who told you "you are afraid to stop for a moment for fear you will die".

Is that still true?

And what will save death in general?

"True, my careerism was a race car to escape the angel of death. I was afraid of death much more than necessary. I can reassure her psychologist, and tell her listen: I have reached the moment I sit. I can sit, not afraid of losing something, and not afraid of death. By the way, Fear of death was greatly reduced in me, and directed to one desire: to die quietly, and not to die in suffering and torment. I know it's popular to say that, but it's true. Listen, in life you befriend death, there is nothing to do. The figure of the angel of death, who says: You are my friend, one day I will acquire your affection, and conquer you completely. So he stands there, maybe on the stairs. So you must like him. How do you like? You lose friends, parents, dear people. It hurts terribly. You know it's going to happen one day, and you're still surprised, and still screaming in pain. That's how you learn to make friends with death.You hurt death but say happy I'm still alive. It's completely ambivalent. Hanoch Levin was a genius at formulating this ambivalence. "

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