"Does not rule out a comeback of 'The Office'. Maybe a cartoon version will be made"
The professional disconnect from Ricky Gervais ("We got out of sync"), the threat of the cancellation culture ("the idea of having to fight every joke is just tiring") and the rumors that he is Banksy ("I do not intend to deny it until the day I die").
Stephen Merchant in a special interview on the occasion of the rise of the crime comedy "Outlaws"
Living Room Fellow
02/05/2022
Monday, 02 May 2022, 08:18 Updated: 08:53
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Some would call it "fate," "cosmetism," or "divine intervention," but it must be admitted that sometimes the really good things in life happen in complete randomness.
Ricky Gervais was far from famous in the late '90s.
In the 1980s he was the lead singer of a failed pop band, later the director of the Swede band and later worked as an assistant to the event organizer at the University of London Student Association.
His work experience was pretty poor, but he was always the funniest man in any room he came across.
In 1997, at the age of 37, his charisma landed him a job as "Head of the Opinion Department" at London's alternative radio station XFM.
There was only one problem, he had no experience in radio.
His first task was to find an assistant.
He posted an ad and received dozens of inquiries from talented candidates.
He admits to himself that it was his laziness that made him simply take the first resume document in a pile, and invite the candidate for a job interview.
"I have no idea what I'm doing in this role, so I need a talented assistant who will get me out well in front of the bosses," he told the candidate honestly.
This was the only interview he conducted, and the candidate accepted the position.
His name was Stephen Merchant.
The two were cut together from radio after a year, but the collaboration between them has become one of the most successful in the history of British comedy, and in general.
The television series "The Office", which they wrote and directed together in 2001, was broadcast in more than 80 countries, and won 12 local adaptations, including in Hebrew.
Although dropped from the screen in 2013, the American version of "The Office" is still one of the most successful series in the world.
According to Nielsen data, in 2020 it was the most watched series on all streaming networks, after being watched by approximately 57 billion (!) Minutes on Netflix, a huge gap from "Grey's Anatomy" in second place which reached only 39.
Its immense popularity led NBC to pay Netflix $ 500 million to return the series' broadcast rights to its streaming network.
And to think that it all started with a completely random choice of resume.
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Cosmetic.
Stephen Merchant and Ricky Gervais hold the Golden Globe Award for "Office" (Photo: GettyImages)
"Obviously it does not bother me to talk about how good the 'firm' is," says Stephen Merchant in a zoom conversation with Walla!
Culture from his home in Los Angeles, "It may sound a bit condescending but it always reminds me of a quote from Joseph Heller. They asked him why he never managed to write a good book like 'Catch 22' and he replied: 'It's true, but no one else "It also failed. 'That's how I sometimes feel about' The Office. '
You were known as the patron of Jim and Pam in the American version of "The Office," the greatest love story in television history in my eyes.
There are legends that you would especially come to the writers' room to make sure the heart of the story stays in the right place.
Out of this place, there's something else that tickles you to bring "Office" back to the screen somehow, or the French
"There's always talk of bringing 'The Office back' in some way, but for me it just ended a week ago. I know she's not, but that's how it feels. Because it's been rebroadcast so many times, and because it's so successful on Netflix, it feels For me it's never really over. The idea of bringing it back now feels weird to me, like doing an encore while half the audience has already left the hall and the other half did not even realize the show was over. I think it's better to wait for a real sense of longing
. The series, so I believe there is something in the 'office' DNA that can always work.
It could be another office in another city, or as you suggested, it could be a spin-off of Jim and Pam.
The real problem now is - are people still working in offices?
It may be that for an entire generation this idea of working in an office sounds absurd.
"
"Yeah I see you talking to me from the childhood room at home, it's a good idea. I also had an idea to do an animated version of 'The Office' where everyone is a kid, like 'Habobotf'."
I was so watching it!
"So you'll probably also like my idea for 'The Office on Ice' in the skating rink."
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Stephen Merchant and Ricky Gervais visiting the American "Office" set
After the great success of "The Office", which even won the Golden Globe Award, Merchant and Jarvis collaborated again in the "Extras" series.
This time, Merchant not only played the role of director and screenwriter, but also starred as Darren Lamb, the worst acting agent in the world.
Gervais and Merchant also directed and co-wrote the film "Junction in Life" and later the series "Life is Too Short".
The two's joint podcast also became a breakthrough in its field, breaking listening records.
At the same time, Merchant's acting career began to flourish, and he played, among others, Caliban Halbkan in "Logan," a Gestapo officer in "JoJo Rabbit" and an NSA agent in "The Girl in the Spider Network."
In 2013 he adapted his stand-up show for a show called "Hello Ladies" on HBO, and in 2015 he created with John Krazinski (the same Jim from "The Office") the successful "Lip Sink Battle" format.
In 2019 he wrote and directed the great film "Family Arena", based on the true story of a British wrestling family trying to get accepted into the WWE.
He now stars in the black comedy "Outlaws," which aired a few days ago on Hot Weiss, which he also wrote and directed.
The new series focuses on seven foreigners who have been convicted of minor criminal offenses and are forced to want joint time in service work, cleaning and renovating an abandoned building in the city of Bristol in the west of England.
The series elegantly combines explosive social issues like police profiling, gender paving and racist stereotypes alongside refined British humor.
The series, which was crowned the BBC's biggest success of 2022 to date, has received a second season that has already been filmed.
One of the things I liked most about "Lawbreakers" is that in many ways the series has the same premise of "The Office."
These are a bunch of strangers, some socially rejected or at least from the margins of society, who crystallize together around a job they really do not want to do but have really no other choice.
They try to get along and despite the great differences they find a common language and even love.
Is the similarity between the series intentional?
"I think it's unintentional, but it's inevitable. As with any TV show, you have to find the foundation. Sometimes it's the family living room, sometimes it's a pub like in 'Free at the Bar,' sometimes it's an apartment or a cafe like in 'Friends.' , Sometimes it's a field hospital like in MAS. You need this base where your characters meet and interact.
"There was a line in the 'office' that someone said, '' the only thing we all have in common is that we share the same piece of carpet for eight hours every day. 'For me it was always interesting, how we choose to spend most of our time with people who in other circumstances We used to not want to spend time with them. It's even more pronounced in circumstances like service jobs, something I knew from childhood because my parents were supervisors in such jobs. I remember as a teenager it was something that intrigued me. They would tell me about the people who came to want the time in service , And it's always been a very diverse mix of people. Adults and young people, a combination of all the socio-economic classes in society - and even a child who was with me in school. So it's an idea I always had in mind, because like you said, it's a good opportunity to show different types "We see each other in no other situation. It's not exactly like 'The Office,' but in both series there is the desire to look for a kind of joint surrogate family."
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Echoes the premise of the "firm"?
Outlaws (Photo: HOT and NEXT)
Your character's fantasy in 'Hello Ladies' was to return to his hometown in England with a beautiful model by his side and show everyone how successful he was in Hollywood.
In fact, that's exactly what you did now, when you returned to your hometown of Bristol to film a major international series with a Hollywood star like Christopher Walken, and you're even in a long relationship with a model.
Did returning home feel like a dream come true?
"The thing is, I've always been joking that I expect to return to Bristol sometime and have a big parade for me and inaugurate a life-size statue of mine, but they will never be able to find enough bronze for a statue my height (Stephen Merchant towers 2.01 meters). ).
I can only speculate that the reason they did not hold the big procession for me was the corona and the ban on crowds.
And seriously, this fantasy of coming home as an occupying hero is something you expect when you are younger.
Later in life you realize how much of a bad taste fantasy it is.
What are you trying to achieve?
Get home and show off?
Trying to make locals jealous?
This is a not-so-pleasant fantasy actually.
"Yes it was a real pleasure to go back to Bristol, work in the city, see my family and connect with my roots. The goal was not to return as a winner. It seems to me that I have reached an age where I prefer to be praised because I am a normal guy. "He hasn't changed, he stays just the way he is, because that's really how I feel. It's better than being driven in the city in a car with a sunroof and letting people wave."
So you're not really like Stuart, your character in Hello Ladies.
"I'm not quite like him. Stuart is my worst version, if I had made some bad decisions in life."
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Fulfilled the dream of his character?
Stephen Merchant with his partner Mircea Monroe (Photo: GettyImages)
You probably know that Google does autocomplete on search pages.
When you write "Ringo Starr" in a Google search bar, it automatically complements "Ringo Starr is left".
When writing "Cliff Richard", Google automatically complements "Cliff Richard is still alive".
When writing your name, it automatically complements "Stephen Merchant is Banksy".
"Wow, really?".
This is a rumor that has been around for years, but I want to tell you that Google has never lied to me.
Fact is, Ringo is really left-handed and Cliff Richard is really alive.
So after revealing the big scoop, please tell me what it's like to be Banksy.
"I kind of like the idea that people think I'm a Banksy. I'm a little uncomfortable taking credit for the masterpieces of the real Banksy, but it's an urban legend too attractive for me to stop.
That sounds just like something Banksy would say.
(Laughs) "So here you go! I think the fact that I'm tall and some of his works have been placed in high positions, it definitely points a finger at me. Anyway, even though I feel like I'm supposed to deny it because of my real Banksy, I'm not going to do it. "It's too flattering, and I intend to keep her alive until the day I die."
I do not want to make a spoiler for those who have not yet watched "Lawbreakers," but there is an episode in the series that has already made headlines around the world, in which Christopher Walken destroys an original work by Banksy.
I guess naturally one can only shoot a scene like this once, and in one take.
How stressed were you before you let a 79-year-old man physically destroy a work of art worth millions?
"I was so stressed that we had to keep this whole scene a secret from all the staff and actors. For a long time no one knew the painting was there, so we made sure to hide it behind some boards. Just before filming I went to Christopher Walken and asked him if he was willing to do He was obviously excited, because like you said, you only have one chance to destroy a work of art of this magnitude. One of the most stressful things.
"On the other hand, it was so happy, we were like kids in a toy store. All this time we had to hide it - not only from the team and the actors - but also from the media, until the series aired. We are in a time where everything is posted in seconds on social media and so "It's hard to keep secrets, so the fact that we were able to keep everything a secret made me understand Banksy's excitement of creating in the dark. Or actually, because I'm Banksy, I understood how I feel."
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Scoop: That's what Banksy looks like.
Stephen Merchant (Photo: GettyImages)
In an interview with Bill Bar in 2019, the American comedian said that he heard a discussion that it was impossible to make the "office" today because it did not meet the politically correct rules of the time. "This is the situation we have reached," the stand-up comedian told me. Famously enraged, “The firm was the most sterilized program there is.
The characters were absurd, and everything on the show was absurd - if one of the guys acted sexist, then the whole joke was about the guy because he was acting stupid.
And today it's impossible to do even that. "Since that interview, Netflix has managed to censor certain scenes from the series, while another network has canceled an entire episode of the series' marathons (ironically, an episode that jokes at the expense of racists)
. Of the “culture of cancellation.” Were you surprised that it came to old episodes of “The Office”?
"Even when we wrote 'The Office' there was such talk. 'Politically correct' were trendy words back then, more than 20 years ago. The whole debate about what is allowed to say and what is forbidden actually became an essential part of the show. David Burnett (the boss character in the British version - AS) and later Michael Scott (the boss character in the American version - AS) were representatives of people from another generation trying to deal with the consequences of the PC, and just did not understand exactly what it means and how to apply it to themselves. So it seems So fake about them because they were socially dinosaurs.But when we explored extreme ideas, they always came from this place of 'how David Burnett wants them to look' versus 'how to really see him'. It was never done with the intent to hurt or be provocative ".
And is that something that makes you change the way you write today?
"The reason I may be more careful today is not because I think there are areas in comedy that should not be explored, but because the automatic responses, which you need to find time to defend against, just divert attention and take up too much time. I do not want to start confronting anonymous people on Twitter "It's exhausting. It's not the right forum to have sensible discussions about nuances. I prefer to just avoid it if I can, because it just sucks."
So you censor yourself more today than in the past?
"Everything I do I try to approach soberly and sensitively, it does not mean you can do comedy without hurting anyone and it does not mean I will not make mistakes along the way. But yes, there is some self-policing, simply because I do not want to get into confrontations. On the other hand "I feel like I've always done it. That does not mean there are no things to do differently now, because our sensitivities have changed over time, and attitudes to certain issues change and that's normal and fair."
So the humorless thugs on Twitter won?
"It's not that we can not have this debate today, or that there are no areas where we need to be more sensitive about it, but this idea that we should set up dances and fight every joke, it's just a tiring worldview. When I was a kid there was a conservative right-wing activist named Mary Whitehouse Comes to all sorts of panels and tries to censor TV shows or magazines for conservative or religious reasons.It's interesting that once all the attempts at cultural abolition came from the conservative right, and now it seems to have undergone a makeover and come from the liberal left. "It happened. I do not understand why they were given this power. It does not sit well with me. Suddenly if I want to express an opinion in favor of freedom of expression I actually find myself on the same side with far-right activists."
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There is more self-policing today.
Stephen Merchant in a standup show (Photo: AP)
In your standup special you explained that the main reason you came back to do standup is that you should not share the revenue with "you know who".
I understood this as a joke, but the truth is that almost a decade has passed since then and you have not returned to work together.
Is your professional disconnection from Ricky Gervais something permanent?
"No, no, there's no disconnection from Ricky, absolutely not. I did the standup which was very much from my point of view, and from it was born a TV show and a movie, and during that time Ricky was working on projects of his own. our.
In addition, thanks to working on the American version of 'The Office' I realized that I love working with more people.
I love this feeling of a writing room with a lot of people and a lot of ideas.
The feeling is that the last projects I did were not in a natural connection to Ricky.
I developed 'Lawbreakers' together with Elgin James, who comes from a very different background than mine or Ricky's.
"If the right idea comes to one of us, it's going to be great to get back to working with Ricky. To tell the truth, I'm not sure
what idea two middle-aged boys can bring today that will get people excited."
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"Not sure what idea two middle-aged boys can bring today that will get people excited."
Stephen Merchant with Ricky Gervais, 2007 (Photo: GettyImages)
You got to work with a lot of big names.
From Nicole Kidman and Robert De Niro, through Kate Winslet and Ian McLean to De Rock.
And yet, there's one scene that stands out to them all in my eyes and that's the moment when David Bowie in the role himself improvises a song in "Extras."
This is perhaps the funniest scene in the history of television.
Who wrote the song?
"The truth is that in terms of copyright, Ricky and I have a joint credit for the song along with David Bowie, which is a huge privilege. It's weird to say but it's pretty simple. Ricky and I wrote the lyrics and David Bowie composed the music. He came to the filming day and played the song, And that was the first time we heard it and just said, 'Brilliant.' "
A few years earlier you were still a radio technician, and suddenly you're writing songs with David Bowie, how did that feel to you?
"I think with someone the size of David Bowie, I have a part, as a fan, that wants to crawl into the man's head and understand how his brain works and where it draws its greatness from, and of course you can not. Do you understand what I mean? Do you just want to eat? Him, swallow him and soak up his genius, but that's not really possible. "
Are you telling me about it?
I'm just trying to do it right now in a conversation with Banksy.
"Exactly! (Laughs) But it's really impossible, so what happens in the end is that you're in the company of David Bowie and you take the time to talk to him about reality TV shows and what he ate for lunch. It's not that he was disappointing, far from it, But I just could not get from him what I wanted anyway, and then in the end it just became part of the work day.
"The same thing happened to me now with Christopher Walken in 'Lawbreakers' filming. We started filming and I thought it would be amazing to talk to him about all the things he did in cinema, and then at the end you realize there is no time at all. .
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לסיום אני רוצה לספר לך שצפיתי לאחרונה שוב ב'הלו ליידיז', ויש שם פריים שאנחנו זוכים לראות בחטף את "רשימת החלומות והתקוות" של סטיוארט. כמובן שהקפאתי את התמונה וקראתי את כל הרשימה, ושורה אחת ממש קפצה לי לראש, והיא "לבקר במזרח התיכון - לא בחלקים המפחידים". ובכן, נראה לי שתיארת את תל אביב, אז מתי אתה מגיע לבקר?
"אני אשמח להגיע. אני מתבייש שעדיין לא ביקרתי בישראל, זה אחד מהכשלונות שלי בחיים. הייתה תקופה שהייתי מטייל בה די הרבה אבל איכשהו זה נעצר. האמת היא שלא נסעתי לשום מקום כבר שנתיים בגלל הקורונה. חברה שלי ואני נוסעים לאיביזה בקרוב, וזאת תהיה הפעם הראשונה שלי שם. גם לא הייתי באיטליה מלבד ברומא. יש אפילו מקומות במרחק קצר מלונדון שאף פעם לא הייתי בהם, אז אני מאוד רוצה לחזור לטייל בעולם. לא יודע מה קרה לי, אולי הפכתי לוורקהוליק או משהו. אבל כולם אומרים לי שישראל היא מקום יפהפה אז אני אשמח לבקר שם. האמת היא שמבין הדברים שלא הגשמתי מרשימת המשאלות שלי, הדבר הכי חשוב לי הוא לבלות יותר זמן במטוסים פרטיים, אז אם מישהו קורא את זה ויכול לממן לי טיסה במטוס פרטי לישראל זו תהיה הפנטזיה האולטימטיבית".
If you are already a tourist, I must tell you that I visited Bristol, probably one of the Israelis who came to this city as a tourist, and saw something amazing there.
In one of the public squares there is a kind of large fountain that can be entered, and there went a mother with a child tied to a leash like a dog.
I do not understand the rules, is this something that is considered normal with you in Bristol?
"For the sake of your readers I will say yes. Write that Stephen said, 'Yes, all the children in Bristol walk around with a leash like dogs.' That's why I was so disciplined as a child, and that's why I behave so beautifully to this day."
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