Promo for the series "Aviram Katz" created by Dana Moden and Eitan Tzur here 11 (courtesy of here 11)
Communications Minister Shlomo Karai's threats to cut the budget of the Public Broadcasting Corporation here by hundreds of millions of shekels caused a lot of concern even for Sasson Gabai, one of our cultural donors, who was involved in some of the productions broadcast by the channel in recent years.
"It's puzzling to me, I don't understand what's behind it, what they want from the corporation," says Gabbay, "It's the only body in recent years that makes diverse, charming, entertaining and profound work. The list is very long, 'Main Box', 'Stockholm', Cash register', 'Locking time', 'Rehearsals', 'Tehran', 'Aviram Katz' which we are doing now and more. Everyone can find themselves."
"The news division should exist because we are a free country," Gabbay continues.
"In the news, there should also be critical questions about what is happening. They are given development here for everyone. You can't say that they don't let someone in particular speak. Everyone talks about everything. And the truth is not found in anyone. Everyone learns to live with everyone, it's not an easy learning process, But I don't see any logical reason to reduce or close the corporation."
"I think that just as the state builds roads - it should take care of culture."
Sashon Gabai (Photo: Reuven Castro)
Gabbay, one of the most respected and busy actors in Israel, will also star in the new series airing on the channel - "Aviram Katz", a comic detective drama created by Dana Moden and Eitan Tzur, based on Asher Kravitz's book "Write Like God", which will be broadcast starting on January 22, Sunday and Tuesday.
Also playing in it are Yehezkel Lazarov, Yaniv Biton, Joy Rieger, Mittal Raz, Ala Deka, Hagar Ben Asher, Gila Almagor Agmon and Shai Avivi.
The series unfolds the story of Aviram Katz (Lazarov), a successful writer of thrillers, who receives a coveted offer: to publish a story in sequels in the weekly supplement of a reputable newspaper.
But Aviram has been in a writing block for a long time.
Salvation comes from the home of Katz, the retired proctologist Dr. Victor Guetta, played by Sasson Gabai. Guetta asks Aviram to give his opinion on the first story he has written in his life. The writer hates requests of this kind but agrees, and is amazed to discover that it is the most beautiful story anyone has ever written. He decides to steal the story and sends it to the newspaper editor, without realizing that by doing so he becomes a suspect in the kidnapping and murder.
The character you play, Guetta, describes her writing as fluid and easy, compared to the character of Aviram Katz, whose writing comes to her with difficulty and torture. People who have worked with you think that you resemble more your character, because it seems that acting work comes to you easily and not with difficulty, without sacrificing accuracy and quality. Do you agree with this definition?
"The comparison between the two genres of writing and acting is unfair to the writers. In writing, you are alone at home - it's you and the computer or you and the paper, you are completely alone. If a writer has a writing block, he is stuck, and has to find his own way out. An actor must Deliver the goods at a certain time. You have to arrive at a certain time on stage or on the set, and you have to deal with the agony of creation at a certain time, and you have to decode the role by hook or by crook. Sometimes you manage to decode it in a creative way that takes off, and sometimes the process is more difficult. I had Deciphering a role came to me easily and intuitively, for example in this case in the 'Aviram Katz' series. And there are cases where the process, which includes investigating and checking what the background is and what the characters are, is more difficult."
In which roles were you at a creative barrier or in difficulty - and which roles were easy for you to decipher?
"I don't like to use the words difficulty or easy. There are things that the fertilization I fertilize myself is more fluid, my imagination works and the information I draw from the text connect to what I see in my head, and there are cases when it's less and then my goal is to bring the character closer to me. I think that every An actor who reads something has an instinctive connection to the thing. Either he sees it or not. It depends on his imagination. I come very open to things, I don't come [when I] know, I come to learn something new and that's what fascinates me. At the same time, I I came with my experience and my personality and my imagination. When you gain experience, you gain confidence and that's very important in a work, it gives you freedom. An actor needs the confidence from the writer and the director, provided he knows what he's doing and aims at the right place."
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Sasson Gabbai in the series "Aviram Katz" of Kaan 11 (photo: courtesy of Kaan 11)
"It's always a complex process, where you start with one thing and end up with something else and more or less deciphered," he recalled of the iconic roles he played.
"'Karaoke' - even there it was an intimate journey into myself, and relatively I connected quite easily. Moshe (Rosenthal, the director - Shab) guided me very much in the options for choosing each take.
Before that I did 'The Orchestra's Visit' in the theater, which is a very strange process because in 2007 I did it in the cinema and already then I deciphered it, even there there was an immediate connection even when I read the synopsis, and immediately afterwards I said to Eran (Kolirin, the director - Shab ) who was looking for an actor - I know this character, stop looking. The more I talk to you, the more I realize that my connections are truly instinctive. Of course, this work is a game between you and the director, and if you approach what he says and he approaches what you say, if there is fertilization Mutually, it's wonderful."
Aviram Katz is a writer who steals a story.
When in your career did you "steal" an idea from another player's work or game move?
And where is the line between acceptable inspiration - and illegitimate creative theft?
"This is an interesting topic. We are all influenced by what we see, experience and consume as cultural consumers. If I see an actor in a certain role that stays with me - it is part of my set of experiences that I take. In writing, you can see in black and white where it was taken and you can check exactly how similar it is And how different it is. In the game…
You can be influenced and that's okay.
I did a show called 'Rochelle is getting married'.
To say that I 'stole'?
Okay.
Let's say 'I stole'.
I think I was influenced.
My character was an older Holocaust survivor from Poland, he walks like an old man, his form of expression is Yiddish.
I remembered Marlon Brando in the movie 'The Godfather' in the last scene, when he was with his grandson before he died, he put his handkerchief in his back pocket, and I saw how he took it out, wiped his forehead and put it back in his pocket.
It really affected me as an actor.
It was something to hold on to, this movement, his conduct.
So I took that nuance and connected it to myself." "
Aviram Katz" also has several sections that were inspired by other well-known works - tributes to "Nights in Kabira", "Trainspotting" and "The Good Guys".
"If these are conscious tributes - that's great, because we are sitting on the shoulders of those who came before us. I like directors who are knowledgeable, who have seen a lot and quote a lot. It's enriching. So making tributes to great and successful and mythical things - is wonderful. Crossing the line by taking Someone else's idea happens mostly in writing. In directing it's hard to prove that there is 'theft'. Evidence is more difficult in acting. I don't know if in history there has been any lawsuit about someone's acting stealing from someone. I don't believe there has been, because it's very difficult to prove it. If there is The judge of such a lawsuit, you will break your head and you won't be able to get out of it."
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"There is a majority here that wants to live in a free country"
In addition to being a huge, beloved and award-winning Israeli actor, Gabbay also starred in quite a few roles in productions that were successful in the world, on television, in cinema and theater, such as the series "Shtisel" and the Broadway stage adaptation of the film "Visit of the Orchestra" in which he took part.
Gabbay also starred in Eran Kolirin's original film, which won eight Ophir Awards.
Recently, the film also appeared on Netflix.
In your opinion, would the film be given funding these days, or would Culture Minister Miki Zohar say that it harms Israel's good name and refuse to fund it?
"I'm sure they would have given him funding. To your question, I really hope that what I read recently about the desire to restrict or sign creators whose films do not harm the good name of Israel - I really hope that this will not happen. One of our greatest things, which we are proud of, is that we are a country open, democratic, multicultural and pluralistic. We don't want to resemble our neighboring countries and other totalitarian countries. We are proud to be different. Creation should be free. There are those who say it should not be publicly funded. I think that like the state makes roads and hospitals and other things for the public , that we pay the taxes on, so it should also take care of culture - and culture should be free. Its soul is freedom."
And what does it even mean to "hurt the good name of Israel"?
After all, a work is supposed to put a mirror in front of things that are not beautiful in reality.
"That's right. That's what I ask myself - who will determine what harms the name of Israel? If you make a work that conveys a moral dilemma of someone in Israel, soldier or non-soldier, who is having a hard time, and you bring up something painful and interesting in the work - then this is our life. Who Can I tell you that it hurts the country? You can say the opposite, that it does something important to the country. And where will you stop? For that there is a law that forbids, for example, the presentation of something that incites. I respect that. I'm not saying to do things against the law. But where will you stop? What Will you do it in museums? And then how will you educate in schools? Every government will think differently, and will not change education accordingly. You have to give the most creative freedom."
"All in all, this is a people with healthy senses. It will be impossible to take away their freedom."
Gabbay (Photo: Reuven Castro)
"I have been lucky enough to be at many festivals around the world. There are also documentaries in them that sometimes criticize the country. Sometimes I get into political conversations with people at the festival and with the audience. When you come abroad and are attacked as an Israeli, you are more sensitive, and I automatically default to defending Israel.
But the first thing I tell them at those festivals - you are indeed criticizing us, but look at this documentary that criticizes Israel - it is also funded by the state.
So look at the degree of freedom we are willing to give even in order to criticize ourselves, and this is also part of the political culture and certainly part of the creation, which needs freedom.
You can't tell someone: Sign [a clause guaranteeing that the film will not harm the good name of the country, as Minister Zohar suggested in an interview with Ynet]."
"I very much hope that such a thing will not happen, that they will not be required to sign such a thing. I hope that things will come to their senses. You have to respect everyone, respect all layers of the population, be pluralistic, and if you want to give expression to religious things - please, here we did 'Stisel' , three seasons with a portrait of the ultra-orthodox public, in a wonderful and charming way. So the work is diverse. And everyone is invited to create and receive support from the state, without being told to sign in advance that it will not harm the state. Where will we stop? How will we end? And who will dictate what is good and what is not? A government official "It hurts the soul of the work."
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"Listen, you can't expect art to do only nice and entertaining things. The entertaining side is part of art and legitimate, but you can't expect all art to be like that," he adds.
"Part of the very essence of creation is to write about the veins of the soul and what goes through your mind. I hope that the politicians in charge of culture will let the amazing Israeli creation flourish and support it, it took us years to become a free people in our country, and that includes free creation as well."
The movie "Another Story" in which you starred is about the coexistence between secular and religious in this country, and the closing sentence you say there talks about how to make this existence "tolerable".
In your opinion, the recent events in the country endanger this fabric and make existence unbearable?
"I don't know. I think we need to learn from each other. You can't exclude anyone from the rules of the game. We are all one fabric, religious and secular, Arabs and Jews, and we all have to live with each other. I think that the religious should be respected, but they should also Respect the secular. Everyone is now talking about the 'majority'. There is also a majority here that wants to live as a free person, in a free, open, accepting and inclusive society. It is possible. I don't understand why anyone should be pushed, everyone should be accepted and express themselves freely in society open and democratic and not try to reduce and limit it."
When the satirical series "Polishok" appeared, describing Israeli politics, it seemed crazy, exaggerated and extreme.
Years have passed since then, and with what is happening today in Israeli politics, "Polishok" seems like a mild, restrained and stately series.
"It's true, the cliché says that reality surpasses all imagination, but this is what is really happening. The market from the Polyshack has become much stronger and dominant. Government offices are divided, several people do the same thing, and each one is on a subordinate role. It really exceeds all imagination." .
And it discourages you, that reality has become a "polishock" on acid?
"I'm never depressed, I'm always optimistic in all respects. I don't want to predict the dark. I hope that things will make sense. All in all, this is a people that has healthy senses, has awareness, has been through a lot of things, and I believe that it has something that cannot be taken away From him, freedom, creativity and logic. You can always do everything up to a certain limit, not beyond that."
"Portrait of the ultra-orthodox public, in a wonderful and charming way."
Sasson Gabai (right) in "Shtisel" (photo: Vared Adir)
Gabbay, who two years ago participated in the film "Oslo" based on the negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians, also criticizes the pushing of this issue from the national agenda. "I think that part of our responsibility towards ourselves is to try to bridge and find a solution to the painful problem that is hardly addressed - the conflict between us and the Palestinians.
I think it should be the main goal, if not one of the main goals, of any government that will be, to find a solution to this conflict.
How and what?
"It's too small to say," he says.
"It's terribly strange that the Palestinian issue is not at all on the table in all Israeli governments for generations. Somehow they solved the problems from a security and military point of view. It's as if it's happening somewhere else, it's as if it's not here, and I think there's something anomalous about having a normal life and next to it, next to it, There is such a bloody conflict, which takes a terrible toll on both nations. And no one really thinks how to solve it once and for all in the long term. Apparently it is very complex, there are probably many global, political, national and other interests. But I think that the role of every government is first and foremost address this problem and solve it."
You played Israel Kastner, Anwar Sadat, Shimon Peres and more.
Which of today's public figures would you like to embody?
Were you interested in playing Netanyahu?
"I didn't think about it. But I think this could be a fascinating character, Netanyahu. It would be interesting to see a work that follows his entire path, his ups and downs, his politics and personal life. This could be an amazing character. I would happily play the part of his maturity, but I don't think they'll take me. If that happens, I'll have to make such a deep, bassy, sexy voice (imitating Netanyahu)."
"I kept having thoughts that I should return to the ground"
Gabbay, who celebrated his 75th birthday a few months ago, is in constant contact with young creators, such as Moshe Rosenthal, who directed him in the movie "Karaoke", or his son, the actor and director Adam Gabbay (known from the series "The Boys", as well as the director of Nuno's music videos and who plays in one What is the character of "Yair").
"There are great forces here, the young people are open, daring and a pleasure to work with," he says.
In the United States there is now a heated debate about nepotism in the film and television industry, for example about Tom Hanks' son who stars alongside him in a new film.
Do you feel that your son Adam is also looked at this way?
He participated by your side in the 'Orchestral Visit'.
Would you hesitate before another casting of him by your side in which production?
"Certainly not. If it is suitable from an artistic point of view, I was happy and will always be happy to work with him," Gabay emphasizes.
"Regarding what you asked, you should ask him. I don't have to deal with it less. Because he was approached at the beginning and told: 'You have a father like that, that must be why it's easier for you' - which is not true. My intervention was to introduce him to an agency or something Such, but he brought the work itself and the result. I always told him, when someone tells you something like that, tell him to watch the series 'The Boys,' for example. I told him: I can't be there for you, it's you, and if you weren't good, no Would have helped even ten like me. The problem is more his, but I think it is diminishing because he has already proven his ability to do, and that he is a person who is based on his art and his personality and not on anything else and not on the fact that he is my son. I appreciate him He is first of all a great actor and a wonderful person, and he is a creator. I am very proud of him for being multidisciplinary - he writes, he directs, he deals with acting,
He also directed music videos for Nono!
Do you connect to her music?
Would you sing her songs at karaoke?
Gabbay laughs.
"Everything is allowed in karaoke! You see people doing very funny things in karaoke. Not only do I connect with her music, I was also at her concert in Barbie. I came with my partner Dafna. When you are at a concert, you are enthusiastic and the music is truly captivating, and it is captivating and the production is well-invested and there is a wonderful orchestra and dancers and you see the audience singing the songs with her. You can't help but get excited. She's just charming. Besides, I've known this girl since she was eight or nine years old, she used to come to us as a child, she and Adam studied together, even when she was Naomi."
"I'm very proud of him."
Adam Gabbai in the series "The Boys" (Photo: Ran Mendelson)
After the successful version of "The Orchestra's Visit" on Broadway, a new version also appeared in London last year with Miri Masika and Alon Abutbol, did you get to see it?
"Yes, I got it, it was lovely. I was just at the festival in London with the movie 'Karaoke'. Alon and Miri are friends, and of course I was curious to see so I caught one of the last performances of it, because it went up for a limited period of performances. They did it differently . Of course the same play and the same music, but the direction is completely different. It was a kind of West End theater with 250 or 280 seats, and they staged it in such a way that the audience sat on three sides. And the audience connected to it. I loved it too."
Why didn't you actually participate in it?
"They did another production, and they didn't contact anyone from the production I participated in. Listen, this is a movie and a play that has accompanied me all my life, and I love it. If they tell me tomorrow to do it somewhere else - I'll be happy. But they wanted to do a new production , with a new director and new actors, it's perfectly fine and they did a very nice thing. Miri was great and Alon was great and the other actors also did a very nice job."
And if overseas adaptations of things you played in are mentioned - it's amazing that "Stisel" is getting a Turkish adaptation.
"They sent me excerpts from it. I looked quite a bit. It's terribly beautiful that works break out, cross borders, cross nations and cross continents. It's great. Even though our industry is relatively small, we manage to break through and reach thanks to creativity, freedom of thought and daring. We need to guard this at all costs ".
"If there is something fascinating, interesting and challenging - I'm there."
Gabbay (Photo: Reuven Castro)
The meeting with Gabbay takes place in a cafe in Ramat Aviv where he lives.
A little less glamorous here than Broadway, I tell the collector.
"Everything is relative, everything is relative," says Gabay.
"As long as there is activity, that's what's important. I went to Broadway from here, that's the basis of the shipping."
The industry says that one of the things that is difficult for you to deal with in the theater today is the fact that, unlike abroad, plays in Israel run for a very long time, and that during this period you want to commit less to plays in Israel in order not to miss great opportunities abroad.
It leaves you shivering.
After I came back I did a few things on TV, but I'm sure I won't hold back much and I'll be back in the theater soon.
There is talk that I will play in 'King Lear' at Beit Lisin, but it is not yet in production, it is a possibility.
And there is also serious talk about a 'Shidor network', it is also a very worthy and interesting play about the power of television, speaking of the public sensitivity that there is now to things that happen in the media."
"I understand what Rita and others went through."
Sasson Gabbai and Rita Shukron from "Karaoke" (Photo: Hadas Proosh)
And among all the offers, ambitions as well as compliments and awards in Israel and overseas, Gabbay insists on keeping his feet on the ground even today.
Perhaps precisely because of his extensive experience.
"Even when I did popular things, I saw it first and foremost as work, and even today I treat it that way. Even today I work, and break down everything, every character and every nuance, and concentrate on doing and working. I am happy when I receive compliments. But when there is something popular like some series, And the media starts to pick someone up - if he cooperates with it, he becomes a little captive in this thing. I was never a prisoner in this thing. I was busy doing, she is what interested me," he says.
Still, wasn't there an unusual moment when you were at least on the verge of being blinded by the spotlight, or at least felt the confusion approaching?
"I had no such thing. On the contrary, I constantly had thoughts that I needed to return to the ground, to reality - a process opposite to what you describe. Let's say there was 'Polishok', which was very popular: I was called by the Knesset and all sorts of things and wanted my opinions on political matters When I kind of avoid expressing my opinion. But I always came back to reality, I came back to doing, I came back to the word itself - this is a work, and it belongs to the one who wrote it with genius, Shmulik the book, and I did it with others, it's a successful satire."
Rita Shukron, who starred alongside him in Karaoke, said in an interview with Haaretz: "What roles have already been waiting for Rita Shukron from Be'er Sheva? Single mothers from the periphery."
Did you also as a "collector" encounter a similar problem, or was this discrimination against Mizrahi women more than Mizrahi men?
"I wouldn't want to make a generalization. There was no discrimination against me personally. I didn't have to stand for this. There was really never a situation where I wasn't hired for a position because of my origin and ethnicity. I did Mizrahim, I did Ashkenazim, I did Anglo-Saxons. It would be terribly funny If I have a complaint after the rich career I've had, I'm happy. I personally haven't felt it. Of course it used to be more acute, when I was young. It may be that eastern women have it harder. Women in general have fewer roles than men, just as people in their 30s have more Roles from people my age. You have to be careful of generalizations, but I can understand what Rita and others went through."
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"The human being is so fascinating, and the learning is endless"
And indeed, at this stage of his career, Gabay looks back with satisfaction.
"What had to happen happened. Even what was less successful is part of my path," he says.
"I'm not immune, we're human. Deborah Kidder, a wonderful actress, once told me when I was working with her: 'There's no such thing as just being successful. It doesn't exist.' To learn and improve myself as a person, to try to have more peace, with myself first - and then with others."
What is your advice to a young player?
"To love what he does. It's very important. Even when you're in trouble, even when you're fighting for your place, even when you're at an audition, to love what you're doing. I've always seen an audition as an opportunity to express myself, and even today I still do auditions abroad.
So you are not always wanted, you are not always taken, but love what you do.
And be curious.
And don't stop learning.
Never come know.
You never know everything.
So the love of the profession, curiosity and endless study.
And of course there must be talent, imagination, intelligence and luck."
"It would be very funny if I had a complaint after the rich career I had."
Sashon Gabai (Photo: Reuven Castro)
בסוף הקיץ האחרון התארחת ב"זהו זה", וזו הייתה סגירת מעגל מרגשת אחרי שהיית בגלגולה המקורית של התכנית.
"היה מקסים להתארח ב'זהו זה'. הגעתי כי לבראבא ולמוני הייתה קורונה אז היה להם חסר מישהו. בעבר היו לי פינות ב'זהו זה', עם ספי ריבלין ושולה חן, ואחר כך היה פופטיץ, ומדי פעם לקחו אותי להנחות כדמות, כשזה היה בפורמט שונה. המפגש איתם שוב היה כזה כיף, והיה מחמם את הלב. אחרי שהייתי בארצות הברית עם כל הדיוק שם בהפקה, שמתי לב שבהפקות הישראליות יש בלאגן מסביב כל הזמן - אבל הטקסטים מאוד מדויקים ומוקפדים ואתה מקבל אותם מראש, אז הגעתי לסט בצורה כמעט מושלמת. בחוץ זה הפוך - ההפקה נורא מדויקת, פרטנית, גם בזמנים - אבל הטקסטים עצמם, אתה מוציא את הנשמה לפעמים עד שאתה מקבל את הטקסט ולא מבין מה נסגר פה".
איזה עוד חלומות יש לך?
"A lot. I have a lot more dreams. What's wonderful about this profession is that you can always renew yourself, and there are always new things to conquer. You're always learning. I swear I'm not exaggerating, after 400 performances of 'The Orchestra's Visit' I would say the same sentence in a different way , and I think to myself, oh, now I'm saying it right. You learn without stopping, even when you have something you already know, and of course also things you don't know. The human being is so complex, and so interesting. Despite what we see now in politics, The human being is so fascinating, multifaceted, and the study is endless. There are a lot of classics that I haven't done. There are new classics that are being written now that I haven't done. The size of the possibilities is the size of the human race. If there's something fascinating, interesting and challenging - I'm there."
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