This time, the police are not asking the questions. This Wednesday, June 2 in the morning, Frédéric Veaux, the "real first cop of France", answered six readers of the Parisian - Today in France. In the aftermath of an impressive demonstration against police violence in Paris and while the George Floyd affair in the United States is acting like a tidal wave, there were, of course, discussions on these hot topics and what they say relationships between part of the French population and its police: misunderstanding, even mistrust ... The director general of the national police responded to these subjects by defending the idea he had of his institution and his profession.
THE IMAGE OF THE POLICE. "The police today are black-white-beur"
Adrien Gabeaud. In 2015, after the January attacks, the police were applauded, today some people chant that "everyone hates them". How do you explain this changeover?
FRÉDÉRIC CALVES. The police are an easy outlet. It symbolizes repression. But, more generally, everything that represents order or institution today is disputed. Some parents no longer have any authority over their children, teachers are attacked, elected officials are threatened, the press is vilified. There are those who do not like the police out of ideology. And those who do not like her because she thwarts their delict or criminal activity in places where the police are not welcome, areas where we seek confrontation with them, where they are held in wait- apens. There are points of view which are irreconcilable. But I am aware that the vast majority of the population is satisfied with the action of the police and their behavior, even if there are certain districts where the image of the police is more deteriorated than elsewhere.
Eléonore Luhaka. For me, the situation has deteriorated. It will take a lot of work for the police to restore their coat of arms.
We strive in recruiting to have a police force that reflects society. There is not a police of nervis which would have only one idea in mind, it is to type everyone. We have police officers of all origins, social, geographic, of all faiths, with very different political ideas. And everyone gets to work together.
Almamy Kanout. Police do not hesitate to treat people as "bicot" or "dirty negro".
The police in France are not racist, it would contradict all the messages and values that we carry. The police today are black and white. When slippages occur, racism must be fought with the greatest energy. Citizens have the capacity to go to the IGPN platform (NDLR: General Inspectorate of the National Police) and to report facts of which they have been victims. There are only around thirty facts concerning racism out of the 1,500 judicial inquiries handled by the IGPN in 2019. We must be intransigent on our values, demanding on our training.
Newsletter - The essentials of the news
Every morning, the news seen by Le ParisienI'm registering
Your email address is collected by Le Parisien to allow you to receive our news and commercial offers. Find out more
VIDEO. Castaner promises "punishment" for "every racist mistake or word" in police
Almamy Kanoute. I want to train the police ...
There are the Human Rights League and the League against Racism and Anti-Semitism who participate in our training.
Almamy Kanoute. Were there still twelve deaths during confinement during police interventions?
This is absolutely untrue. I do not know where you will get your statistics. You have to be careful what you say. The first thing that a police officer is taught when he enters the police is that the person he is arresting is placed under his protection. Force is used only as a last resort.
Adrien Gabeaud. Isn't the police today more in the service of the State than of the citizen?
The police are a public service, they defend citizens and society. Perhaps we need to better explain our actions. The first of our missions is to ensure the safety of people and property, firstly preventively and, when necessary, repressively. But neither are we the tourist office, we are also there to ensure that public order is respected and to bring the perpetrators to justice.
Adrien Gabeaud. Should a receipt be issued for identity checks?
I do not support it. For years, the administrative or criminal procedure has been hindered at the expense of the time that the police could devote to other things. Today, there is the obligation to wear the RIO number, and then in their daily actions, the police are filmed by smartphones, even if sometimes the videos are truncated and show only part of what was observed.
POLICE VIOLENCE: "There is no impunity"
Almamy Kanoute. As a member of the Adama Traoré committee, I was at the demonstration against police violence on Tuesday evening in Paris. How can we not see a parallel between this case and that of George Floyd in the United States?
I will guard against any comparison. Fortunately, France has nothing to do with the United States in terms of the police and the use of weapons, which is very questionable there, placed in the French context. My fear is that this type of demonstration will serve to produce amalgams. There are demonstrators who are sincere and who defend a cause, to which we adhere or not. But others are manipulators. What is happening in the United States should not be used as a pretext to cause trouble and chaos in our country. There is emotion but also reason. In cases where the action of the police is called into question in France, we must remain concrete, technical and up to the task. The police do not have to be violent, they must use force as a last resort and it is never cheerful.
VIDEO. Rally for Adama Traoré: 20,000 demonstrators gathered, incidents during the dispersal
Almamy Kanoute. In France, Adama Traoré and, more recently, Cédric Chouviat, however, both died during arrests under very similar conditions…
It is not comparable. Investigations are underway and I will not comment on these cases. But of course, such dramas make us question our methods and techniques of intervention. We are not Robots. No one wants the police to stop arrests so appalling. It is always a tragedy for families but also for the police who carry this death in their hearts and their heads for the rest of their lives.
Put Hvilsom. In certain European countries, ventral tackling is prohibited. Why not with us?
After the Chouviat affair, the Minister of the Interior asked us to the director general of the gendarmerie and to myself to reflect on the techniques of arrests. We will be making our conclusions in the coming days. But the tackle, if you handcuff an individual to the ground and lift him up, it's not dangerous. The technique is not necessarily in question, but the way in which it is implemented. Likewise, if you let yourself be handcuffed, there is no reason to be pinned to the ground.
Adrien Gabaud. The debate on the use of the LBD (defense bullet launcher) during demonstrations, a weapon also prohibited elsewhere, is not settled either ...
The police response must be proportionate to the threat they face. Now we have seen in the Yellow Vests demonstrations that dikes have jumped. The violence against the police and the rampage has gone up a notch. The LBD cannot be used to shoot someone from close range, who poses no threat.
Mette Hilvsom. The LBD causes damage, we must not delude ourselves. I haven't been showing for a year for fear of losing an eye…
LBD's serious injuries generally only occur when it is used in unlawful ways and the police are then punished. The violence during the Yellow Vests protests has no equivalent elsewhere. I think that in our country, we can demonstrate peacefully, and express ourselves in different ways: voting, unionizing ... Nothing justifies violence.
Mette Hilvsom. Part of the population, like my son, thinks that the police enjoy a certain impunity when they commit a fault. How to explain it?
Our representation of the police is not always true to reality. The police are one of the most controlled institutions in our country. More than 50% of the sanctions taken in the administrations concern the police. There is very demanding hierarchical control, control of our missions by the judicial authority, the defender of rights, the media ... We know that unacceptable individual behavior degrades the image of the national police, so we are very strict when there is a fault. Each fault is the subject of an IGPN investigation.
Eléonore Luhaka. But the IGPN investigations (Editor's note: General Inspectorate of the National Police, "the police force") really succeed?
I have never heard that the IGPN was lenient with the police. Precisely, as she does not want to be subjected to this criticism which consists in implying that the police make "their little salad" between them and protect themselves, it is very severe and demanding. I would even dare to tell you that the IGPN is particularly feared in the police station. The police are not only very controlled, but also severely punished when they are at fault.
Eléonore Luhaka. In the case of my little brother's assault (Editor's note: Théo, victim of a muscular arrest in Aulnay-sous-Bois, in Seine-Saint-Denis, in 2017), three of the police were reinstated. I call that putting the bad apples back into the flock.
I have no right to speak on the matter which affects you. But I can assure you that there is no impunity for the police. Since I took office in February, I have already taken steps to dismiss the police, I even signed one this morning. I don't take personal pride in it. But we have no interest in keeping “bad apples” with us as you say. The police have a duty of exemplarity. But they also have the right to defense and to fairness. Each situation must be analyzed in order to determine the circumstances and the levels of responsibility. The first perception that we have of facts at the start of a case can quickly change.
RODEO, DRUGS, BREAKERS. "We will strengthen our actions"
Put Hvilsom. In rural areas there are motocross fields. All young people need to "enjoy". Why not install them in these neighborhoods to avoid the rodeos?
The objective for them is not to go on a ground where nobody will see them. The goal for them is to be on a road and to make the most noise and acrobatics possible. It is also to assert their presence on the territory. And even, for some of them, to hope for the intervention of the police to make beautiful images and then share on social networks. Rodeos are a scourge especially for the people who live in these neighborhoods. Since 2018, there is a law that punishes these rodeos with prison terms and fines. The difficulty remains to challenge these young people without risk of accident. The principle is not to embark on chases that can end badly, but to try to seize upstream these motocross which are often stolen or to be able to arrest the authors at near their machines. We are mobilized and have results that the Minister of the Interior presented last week and intend to strengthen our actions.
Adrien Gabeaud. Is there a form of impotence in the face of the drug trafficking that plagues certain neighborhoods?
Any. It is a business that generates considerable profits. We cannot completely eradicate it, but traffickers must know that at one time or another, they will have the police in front of them and that they will not profit from the fruits of their trafficking. That is why we have created the Anti-Narcotics Office (OFAST) and the plan to combat narcotics.
Eléonore Luhaka. But are the big heads of this traffic only in the cities?
I do not reduce the districts to this function there, but the points of deal are there in any case. Traffic is easy and quick money. You can start very young and this sometimes allows you to exist in your neighborhood. For others, it is also a means of survival in the face of misery. And traffickers exploit this.
Laurent Brenta. Concerning the thugs on the fringes of the demonstrations, the intelligence services know them, so why don't we call them upstream?
We are trying to do it. They know our techniques well, they adapt to circumvent them and to bring them to justice, we need evidence, therefore of the flagrant offense. Their technique is often to create chaos to force the police to intervene which creates incomprehension for peaceful demonstrators who do not always know or understand what is going on. They see only a direct police attack against them.
THE POLICE PROFESSION. "We take society as it stands, in full face, without filter"
Mia Alrosa. What advice would you give to a young police officer or just a young person?
Come to the police you will have your place. The police must be the image of our society. You can do a lot of jobs there. There are extraordinary solidarities that develop there. It is a difficult, demanding, intense profession. A job where you always have to fight against your certainties. No matter how well you prepare, train, when you are in the field, things rarely go as planned. But this is what also makes the interest of this profession. We take society as it stands, in the face, without a filter. It's real life. It is sometimes tiring. But if I had to start again today, I would do the same.
Mia Alrosa. Have you had strong experiences?
I opened fire once during an intervention, I was caught in a shooting, I testified before courts of assizes, I made observations on the corpses of children, I went announce the death of people to dads, moms, brothers, sisters. I passed the mop at the home of a collaborator who had committed suicide in his apartment. The firefighters were gone. It was 1 am and we were left alone with a colleague to clean up the traces of blood. You go back home. You tell as little as possible because you don't want to talk about it. All this must be managed. The day after the attacks of November 13, when I saw the lists of victims, I said to myself: we are doing a job to prevent this from happening and today we are counting the dead. And you see their names, their ages, 20, 22… it's difficult. But this intensity is only available to the police. And the passion for the profession overcomes all these sacrifices.
Almamy Kanoute. And what would you say to citizens to reassure them?
Do not always believe what you are told. The police are you. With its diversity, its wealth, its strengths, its weaknesses too. On both sides, we deserve better than caricature.
Frédéric Veaux and the readers of Le Parisien
Around Frédéric Veaux, from left to right: Almamy Kanoute, 40, Fresnes (Val-de-Marne), consultant and activist; Adrien Gabeaud, 38, Paris (17th century), lawyer; Mia Alrosa, 25, Melun (Seine-et-Marne), student; Eléonore Luhaka, 41, Aulnay-sous-Bois (Seine-Saint-Denis), trainer; Laurent Brenta, 57, Paris (VIIIth); Mette Hvilsom, 54, Paris (20th century), real estate agent.