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CSU politician Ulrike Scharf, head of the Bavarian Women's Union: "Many members of the Women's Union suffered injuries in the quota debate that can still be felt today and must be dealt with"
Photo: Sebastian Widmann / Bongarts / Getty Images
SPIEGEL:
Ms. Scharf, a year ago the party base rebelled against an increase in the quota for women at the CSU reform party conference.
Have you come to terms with this defeat?
Ulrike Scharf:
The party congress was a very bitter experience.
Many members of the Women's Union suffered injuries in the quota debate, which are still noticeable today and have to be dealt with.
The discussion was even more relentless than at the party conference ten years ago, when the CSU voted for mandatory women's quotas of 40 percent at district and state level.
SPIEGEL:
Which comments from opponents of the quota hit you particularly hard?
Scharf:
The same argument from district chairmen that they have no time to use the slide rule to monitor gender parity in board elections and that women are unfortunately, unfortunately not there, annoying many in the Women's Union.
Particularly painful, however, was the refusal of the young party members to trust the empirical values of us long-term CSU women.
I understand that ambitious women want to establish themselves in the party on their own.
But without the quota, we simply cannot achieve our common goal quickly enough.
SPIEGEL:
The CDU wants to vote on a binding women's quota of 50 percent by 2025 at its federal party conference in December.
There were tough internal party negotiations beforehand, and Friedrich Merz is still looking for an alternative to the quota.
What do you advise the sister party?
Scharf:
I advised Annette Widmann-Mauz, the head of the Women's Union of the CDU, to seek dialogue with the grassroots early on and intensively.
There are certainly also district chairmen in the CDU who believe that quotas are not needed, performance alone has to decide.
There is still a lot of persuasive work to be done and everyone's awareness of the fact that the CDU and CSU can only remain party to the people if they guarantee equal participation for women and men.
SPIEGEL:
In Thuringia, the state constitutional court recently overturned a parity law that required parties to alternate between men and women on their electoral lists.
Are quotas therefore undemocratic?
Scharf:
We as the Women's Union see the quota as an instrument that is temporarily necessary to get on the right track.
SPIEGEL:
What is your assessment one year after the reform party conference?
Scharf:
After all, we were able to achieve a target quota of 50 percent in the narrower district executive and a mandatory parity for the appointments in the narrow executive at the district level and at the party leadership.
In the local elections in Bavaria half a year ago, many more women ran for the CSU than before.
With Eva Weber, Augsburg has for the first time a Christian social woman as head of the city.
In the rural district of Munich and in the city of Nuremberg, the CSU drew up electoral lists with equal numbers.
Something is happening, but not enough.
SPIEGEL:
Around 90 percent of town halls in Bavaria are still ruled by men.
Are you getting enough backing from the party leader to make the CSU more feminine?
Scharf:
We are the largest working group within the party, at the beginning of the week Markus Söder presented the new logo of the Women's Union together with us.
Board elections are due next year at all party levels.
We, like the party leadership, want and have to sensitize the associations to more support for women at the grassroots level.
There is no question that women are there, that they can and want to.
But a lot of help is needed in the last step.
Women want to be asked and challenged.
The district and local chairpersons should think about this early, if possible now.
SPIEGEL:
Did the corona crisis tend to promote or slow down women's political engagement?
Scharf:
On the one hand, many women have certainly found it easier to reconcile family, work and party work by participating in virtual conferences and board meetings instead of having to travel long distances.
We were also able to recruit 400 new members in the first six months.
On the other hand, we all lack personal encounters.
I also feel that the crisis has boosted men's careers more than women's.
"The fact that women keep the store running is not given enough political consideration."
SPIEGEL:
How do you determine that?
Scharf:
The dominant actors in crisis management in the areas of virology, health policy, economic rescue and the media were mostly men.
In May, the Women's Union pointed out in a position paper that women are systemically important.
They sit at the supermarket checkout, they work particularly hard in hospital shifts or in care facilities, but also particularly invisible and underpaid.
Politically not enough consideration is given to the fact that it is women who keep the store running in many parts of Germany.
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Politics in crisis: mostly male
Photo: dpa
SPIEGEL:
Some studies refute the thesis that there was a crisis-related role backwards in the relationship between the sexes.
Scharf:
That doesn't necessarily correspond to my experience.
In many places it was mostly women who cut back on their professional commitment, for example to take over homeschooling for the children.
SPIEGEL:
With a view to the upcoming election of the new party chairman, you can definitely diagnose masculinization in your sister party, the CDU.
How do you explain the fact that there are no women running?
Scharf:
I very much regret that there is no woman in the candidate carousel.
Women also have to apply for top positions like this one.
SPIEGEL:
Angela Merkel's successor may also be seeking a man in the CSU.
Do you think that Markus Söder can be Chancellor?
Scharf:
We'll talk about the K question as soon as the CDU has elected its new party leader.
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