At Plasberg: Spahn no longer rules out the speed limit – Lindner insists on a tank discount

Created: 03/22/2022, 14:34

"Hard but fair" on March 21, 2022: Jens Spahn (CDU) visiting Frank Plasberg (ARD).

© WDR/Oliver Ziebe

"Hard but fair" was about the massive price increases caused by Corona and the Ukraine war.

What means does politics have to counter this? 

"Hard but fair" was about the massive price increases caused by Corona* and the war in Ukraine*.

What means does politics have to counter this?

It is a "dilemma" in which Germany finds itself in terms of energy policy, says the deputy SPD federal chairman Thomas Kutschaty without beating around the bush.

The SPD * man describes the new delivery deals with Qatar and the United Arab Emirates in comparison with Russia as a "choice between two evils".

However, this is a necessary step, according to Kuchaty, because one "can't just stand by and watch" "how our country ruins itself".

Ukraine war: Spahn wants to turn away from Russia's gas - "Putin-free"

The group is unanimous: the move away from Russian gas - "Putin-free" as Jens Spahn* calls it - is the new target.

There are also new rules for this, which Kuchaty sums up: "The original principle that anyone who trades with us can never be an opponent no longer applies."

A month ago, Frank Plasberg put the energy topic on the tableau, but because of the invasion of Russian troops in the Ukraine, he quickly replaced it with the current war topic.

At the time, however, he promised the viewers: "We'll catch up on that topic!"

In February, it was originally still about the rising heating costs and the rise in food prices*, but now the exploding petrol prices have also been added - and also a fundamentally new geopolitical assessment: "The war and the consequences for us: will energy become unaffordable?" Plasberg wants to know.

"Hard but fair" - these guests discussed with:

• Christian Lindner (FDP*) -

  Federal Minister of Finance

• Thomas Kuchaty (SPD) -

  deputy

  Federal Chairman

• Jens Spahn (CDU*) -

  deputy

  faction leader

• Prof.

  _

  Claudia Kemfert -

  Head of the Energy, Transport, Environment Department at the German Institute for Economic Research (DIW Berlin)

• Ulrich Reitz

  - Editor-in-Chief of

  Focus

• Susanne Holtkotte -

  cleaning lady in the hospital

"Tough but fair" on the Ukraine war and the consequences: Germans report that they have renounced

How much the population is already affected by the rising prices is shown by the numerous contributions from the viewers who have their say at Plasberg.

A family in the country that heats with oil and is dependent on car trips, commuters who have no room for maneuver for additional expenses, people who do without holidays and leisure time.

And the pressure on the government is increasing, because a dissatisfied and indebted population is a massive threat to the "social peace" that Economics Minister Robert Habeck has been citing a lot in recent days.

Dissatisfaction is also boiling up at Plasberg.

There are heated discussions on the show.

Plasberg, who is otherwise so relaxed, has to intervene loudly to restore order in the canal. 

"Tough but fair" on the Ukraine war and the consequences: "We're in shit"

A directly affected person is also sitting in the studio.

In contrast to the privileged talk show professionals, the cleaning specialist Susanne Holtkotte seems refreshingly honest when she says: "We're in shit" - and gets the non-verbal approval of the otherwise composed group of politicians and experts.

Holtkotte describes her daily routine at Plasberg: Every morning "the alarm clock rings at 3 a.m.", at 5 a.m. she goes to work - with an "old Golf".

Holtkotte gets 11.50 euros an hour for cleaning in a hospital - at the end of the month that makes 1,200 euros.

You believe her immediately when she says: "My whole life consists of saving!".

Finance Minister Lindner (FDP) speaks in Plasberg-Talk about "tank discount"

Finance Minister Christian Lindner, who is included in the interview in the program to praise his "tank discount", which has meanwhile been controversially called "Porsche money", names the group that the FDP is very concerned about: "the whole breadth of society [ ...], expressly also the middle class, which depends on the car, and the tradesmen".

Lindner defends his controversial watering can principle, which also favors higher earners, since it can be "decided directly without legislation".

Lindner also emphasizes that this is "an exceptional measure" and makes it clear that the money will be less: "The state will not be able to compensate for a loss of prosperity in the long term."

War in Ukraine as a topic in “Hart aber fair”: VAT and “mobility money”

Spahn names the CDU plan as an alternative: reduce energy tax or “VAT from 19 to seven percent” in order to “at least 40 cents per liter”.

But the SPD proposal for a "mobility allowance" graduated according to income from Labor Minister Hubertus Heil (SPD) was the best.

Only Holtkotte does not find this sufficient.

The long-standing campaigner for renewable energies, Prof. Claudia Kemfert, is one of the few in German society who had always warned against dependence on Russia and dared to look back in the show: “It was already problematic with Nord Stream 1 ", says Kemfert and also includes China's economic dependencies.

But politicians would always have "smiled cheerfully" in this regard.

"Tough but fair" on Russia's gas: "We were the junkie and Putin was the dealer"

Focus editor-in-chief Ulrich Reitz finds clear words: "We were the junkie and Putin was the dealer." The Chancellor Gerhard Schröder and Angela Merkel* had "helped to deal", for Reitz it was a "negligent policy".

Kemfert also jumps up and cannot stop himself from seeing the blame for the current crisis in the "failed energy policy" of the Merkel years.

Plasberg comforted the irritated professor: "We'll have another discussion about how a reasonable energy transition can succeed." 

Tough but fair on 03/21/22: Visiting Frank Plasberg (r) Ulrich Reitz (chief correspondent at Focus Online).

© WDR/Oliver Ziebe

Jens Spahn does not want to let that stand, referring to the introduction of the EEG surcharge, the highest energy prices in Europe - with which the Merkel government tried to push the energy transition forward.

But the focus - even with the Greens* - was not on gas, but on phasing out coal and nuclear power.

There was a "broad consensus".

Spahn makes it clear: "Everyone knew that the more we go down this path, the more dependent we become on gas." LNG terminals” voted.

Spahn appeals to his political colleagues from all parties to "question things" that have been "said for decades" and to stop party-political "reflexes".

After all, everyone agrees on the goal of becoming "Putin-free", sovereign in the energy supply and climate-neutral.

"What we adapt is the way to get there," says Spahn.

He expects an overall concept from the federal government, "and then" you can also talk about topics like "speed limit".

Kemfert had previously calculated that this could save up to seven percent in energy costs.

Conclusion of the "hard but fair" talk

At the end, Plasberg let the already winged sentence of the former Federal President Joachim Gauck appear again: "And we can also freeze for freedom." "In the official apartment!", added journalist Reitz.

This "dilemma" was not able to be solved by the program either: if you have money, it's always good to talk (of course)...