"There are quite a few senior talents at News 13 who tell me, 'We were the leading news company in Israel, and today we are like clowns on the programs of Ila Hasson and Sharon Gal,'" reveals Walla's political reporter Barak Ravid, who seems today to be almost welcoming the same decision that was made a few years ago to fire him From the news company of Network 13.
In a conversation on the podcast of the Israel Press Institute, Ravid talks about the criticism against him ("People like to be patted on the back. It's much less pleasant when they are told that a homophobe, a misogynist and a racist has just been appointed responsible for two billion shekels"), about his publicized dismissal from the news 13 which in retrospect appear to be a promo for changes on the channel's screen ("The facts show that I was wrong. I buried my head in the sand"), and the political coverage in Israel ("The political reporters mostly deal with political gossip, especially on television, because that is what their editors want").
A small part of the conversation is presented here in the article.
Listen or watch the full conversation.
Barak Ravid (photo: Reuven Castro, Walla system!)
"I estimate that with Biden it will no longer change, but there are quite a few people in this administration who are dying for this discussion to take place, because they also understand that this statement has no value. We need to start saying and not doing or we need to start saying one country"
Let's start with the macro.
The New York Times (we will return to it later), visited Israel in an unprecedented manner last month with 20 negative columns, and headlines against the new government.
What is the mood these days in the rest of the international media?
"I don't want to disappoint because we always think we are the most important in the world, but in the last year the main issue that still preoccupies the international media is not Israel, but the war in Ukraine.
But if we step into the eyes of an American viewer or a news editor in Britain, he looks at the composition of this government, and sees that it is much more religious, nationalist and extreme, with a large number of government ministers convicted of crimes or investigated by the police or on trial - so what do we expect him to write?
What do you expect them to write in democratic reformed Western countries, which is great?
And this is even when a government declares in its coalition agreements that it is going to annex the territories.
"Look, there's a fairly remote Jewish-American news agency called JNS, I don't know if you've heard of it, there they write only good things about Israel. But in other places not really. Even Fox News may not yet sound like CNN or NBC, but even there I hear no Few people ask what is actually going on here. Even in the Republican Party, by the way."
After all, what can the US actually do about it? The tools at its disposal are quite limited.
"A lot of people ask me this question and expect to hear unequivocal answers. It doesn't work like that, like a switch that goes from dark to light. It's more like a dimmer. There is a scale. The danger is not that it will go from 100 to 0, it's enough that it goes from 100 to 90. In my world it's wow, in the world of normal people it's 'who cares'. I'll give you an example, the visa exemption for travelers to the USA.
This is something that touches the lives of many Israelis.
The administration can decide at will that is not appropriate now.
In the end it affects people's lives.
This is a small example, and it could also lead to the sale of fighter jets to parties we have no interest in them reaching or the weakening of intelligence cooperation against Iran.
Again, these are things that are really not on the agenda, but these are all tools." The
Americans, by the way, continue to point out in their responses that "Israel deviates from the two-state vision." It feels like a crazy disconnect. They really believe that someone will turn almost a million Israelis here in the coming decades ?
"I estimate that with Biden it will no longer change, but there are quite a few people in this administration who are dying for this discussion to take place, because they also understand that this statement has no value. We need to start saying and not doing or we need to start saying one country."
"What do you expect them to write in democratic reformed Western countries, which is great?".
Netanyahu and Mouz (photo: official website, no)
"Sometimes stupidity is just stupidity"
A minute before the establishment of the government in Israel, you presented to your followers abroad the picture of Netanyahu shaking the hand of Avi Maoz after the agreement between them on the acceptance of the department of Jewish identity in the Ministry of Education. You were attacked for this by the bibists, who called you a tinker.
"Listen, what can I say?
It's stupid.
Really, sometimes stupidity is just stupidity.
And specifically the man who wrote it is an idiot (the author is Yanon Magal D.V.)".
But maybe you can understand the sentiment of "an Israeli first".
"They would like me to write, see how beautiful it is. The problem is not that I write in English, but that the complainers understand that it is not that beautiful. Some may think so, but the majority understand that it is not, and simply like to be patted on the back. It is much less pleasant when you tell them that they have just named a homophobe , a misogynist and a racist is responsible for two billion shekels of budgets for educational programs and another 200 million for the Jewish Identity Authority, which I recommend reading Nadav Eyal and seeing what they want to do with the money - to establish a mechanism to monitor people and their attitudes. It's a crazy thing."
And maybe the left makes concessions to itself?
The politicians do not stand in a vacuum.
They represent a large public that elected them, and even in retrospect the government receives broad public support among its voters.
"Look, David, people may not understand this, and it may not happen with Avi Maoz - but we should probably do more citizenship education programs on the role of the media. My job as a journalist is to report on the forces of power in the country. Specifically, as a political reporter, my job is to criticize the government, not its voters. My job is to report to the public who vote for the government. Some will be angry, some will connect and others will be indifferent. But if anyone thinks my job is to quarrel with Likud voters, they are wrong. The only thing that interests me is whether these things True. After all, if we had chosen to report only according to what people would report, we would not have reported anything."
The News 13 train has already left the station
"There are quite a few people there who say, 'Wait, until a few years ago we were the leading news company in Israel, and today we are like clowns on the programs of Ila Hasson and Sharon Gal, who humiliate us and abuse us and laugh at us - in our workplace'"
You worked for two and a half years at News 10, which became 13, until you were fired.
Today there is quite a bit of criticism of News 13 that has become bibist, and opposite, also an unofficial statement of intentions to return to the DNA of News 10. How do you see it?
"Many of the people who work at News 13 are good friends of mine. There are great people who remain there. But I know there have been quite a few discussions there recently about 'News 13 where'. And I think there are many people there, including the most senior talents at News 13, who previously They buried their heads in the sand and today they understand that the wheel must be turned back. They understand that the company must return to what it was - this company was the best news company in Israel, which is not afraid to criticize the government and is not afraid to bite.
"There are quite a few people there who say, 'Wait, until a few years ago we were the leading news company in Israel, and today we are like clowns on the shows of Ila Hasson and Sharon Gal, who humiliate us and abuse us and laugh at us - in our workplace.' I think this is a great challenge for a CEO "To the news company".
CEO of the news Aviram Elad is already a year and a half into the position and you don't see it happening.
"That's right, that train has already left the station. I say this with great sadness. What you don't do at the beginning, you no longer do. It was an opportunity and it wasn't used, and I think it won't happen again."
You used the phrase "bury their heads in the sand".
I want to read you things that you yourself told me three years ago in an interview with "Globes", by the way - three months before you were fired.
The days then are days of economic crisis in the company, and a demand for horizontal cuts that comes from the controlling owner Len Blavatnik.
"The reason that News Ten has survived, and that News 13 will survive, is that it is an asset to both the Israeli public and the network. In the end, it is an excellent news company, also for the network," you tell me then.
And something else from that interview, and I'm not just dwelling on it.
I reminded you that it is necessary to stop calling Netanyahu "prime minister of the transitional government".
And I asked this: "Perhaps the journalistic backbone is weaker today when it comes to the pressures coming from the right?"
Do you remember what you answered?
No.
You said: "There is such a thesis, I am familiar with it, and I am quite convinced that many times it does not stem from some ideology or some suggestion from above or some turning of the wheel in one direction or another. Many times stories do not enter the edition simply because of the decisions of an editor."
You also buried your head in the sand.
"I think I was definitely wrong. Listen, the facts show that I was wrong. You can agree on that. I think I buried my head in the sand."
"humiliated at their place of work".
Sharon Gal (photo: screenshot, Network 13)
All layoffs are for good
"A minute before the hearing, a senior White House official calls me and says: 'Say that President Trump intended to give you an exclusive interview because of all the annexation matters, and now it won't take place on News 13'"
By the way, the title of that interview was: "If there's one thing I've learned about Netanyahu, it's that he appreciates power and understands power. And that's how I behave in front of him."
Do you think there is a connection between her and the layoffs?
"If you're asking if Netanyahu wanted to fire Barak Ravid? I don't know and I don't think that happened. Things are more complex. One of the things I learned after checking and investigating is that in the end there was something that was indeed imposed from above. The spirit that was broadcast from the direction of the chairman of the Nadav Topolsky Network, And also the way that CEO Twito (Israel Twito, then the CEO of the D.V. news company) led was to change the screen.
What is the "mask" - there was an attempt to change it so that it would be less left-wing - more right-wing, less liberal - more conservative, less Tel Aviv - more Rashal Laz. Bottom line: Sahabak did not meet any criteria and it was a prime target for elimination. At the hearing I was told I was being fired because I was one of the worst performing employees in the company.I think everyone listening or watching knows that is not true.
"One of the sentences I saw in Aviram Elad's announcement when he took office and I was very disappointed to see was that News 13 'will represent all parts of Israeli society' - which is a value I strongly believe in - but it is not related to a news company. It is related to many other institutions in the country. The highest and only value that is necessary Being a news company is for it to bring the best stories.
"Listen to a story. When I was fired, there was an article about it in the AP. It was a hysterical piece, and for that alone it was worth getting fired, having an article about me in the world's largest news agency. In short, while I'm on the steps to go up to the hearing, a senior White House official calls me and says: Say that President Trump intended to give you an exclusive interview because of all the annexation matters, and now it won't take place on News 13. I hesitated whether to say, after all, it's something official and big. In the end I said, and I saw that it didn't move a single muscle in the face of whoever made the decision up there. In retrospect , the interview with Trump took place less than a year later, and the book was also published, so I really really want to say thank you for this."
And if you are now offered to return to News 13?
"not going to happen".
"In the end, there was something that was placed from above."
Topolsky (Photo: Fazit Oz)
The Iranian salad
"At the end of the military reports, HaShem and Arab report that there is an agreement with Iran in a second, and in practice, this was not the case at all. Just a complete fake. But if the head of the Mossad tells them that, then they publish it. If they had talked to more people, they would have realized that there is no Nothing, that everything is just psychological warfare"
Let's talk about the political correspondents' cell in which you have been a member for 16 years, dating back to your days as a political reporter at "Haaretz".
Give me perspective.
What grade do you give him?
What is missing in it?
"I'll give you an example, related to the White House press office, which is very, very powerful. And it's not related to policy, but to a journalistic story. What was their biggest fight with the Trump administration? About the holding of briefings. That's what this office exists for. After all, what is a journalist? The man who asks the questions because the ordinary citizen doesn't have access. A journalist should demand access. In American culture, opinions are a sacred thing, here it doesn't happen. One of the things I would like is for there to be professional associations of reporters, who would require politicians to hold more press conferences and answer more questions."
There is a feeling, especially in recent years, that everything that is written in the international press about Iran goes through here without a filter and is published. Sometimes there are quite a few inaccuracies and recycling.
"The Iranian story in Israel is dramatically biased in favor of the security establishment. Very few reporters consume their information on this subject from primary sources or from Iranian media. Most of the time the reporters here see what is being reported in the Western world about Iran instead of talking to internal sources, which is a salad. And one more thing, there is no longer Israeli reporters in Washington. After all, you have to reach the people yourself in the end. But you don't have reporters because most of them are asked to deal with political gossip, especially on television, because that's what their editors ask for
. , and in practice, it was not in the direction at all.
Just a complete fake.
But if the head of the Mossad tells them that, then they publish.
If they had talked to other people, they would have realized that there is nothing here, that everything is just psychological warfare."
Tried to help.
Trump (Photo: Reuven Castro)
Netanyahu was right
"Netanyahu was right that peace can be achieved with Arab countries before the Palestinians. I argued with this thesis quite a bit, and he was right. I was wrong."
You know Trump's work very well and you even wrote a book about him, in which you stated that the Abraham Accords are his greatest achievement and they would not have come into existence without him - despite and perhaps precisely because of his controversial personality.
So maybe there is still justice in the way Trump did things, and if we derive from him - justice in the way the right wants to do things today, in the policy of "the landlord has gone crazy"?
"It is clear that this is a legitimate policy, and it really achieves results. But the question is how it is used. Donald Trump used this policy in several regions of the world, in some of which it was a colossal failure. He withdrew from the nuclear agreement with Iran and thought they would beg for negotiations - it did not happen.
The same with the Palestinians here, he cut off their funds and thought it would bring them to their knees - and it didn't happen.
In the case of the Abraham Accords, since he changed policy, got closer to the Gulf countries and Israel and closed the trust gap that Obama opened, along with appointing the right people and putting his hand in his pocket - it really worked for him.
I don't think Hillary Clinton would have succeeded in such a thing because she wouldn't have put her hand in her pocket like that."
And what about some credit for Netanyahu?
"Exaggeration, the credit appears in the introductory chapter of the book, and he deserves it mainly for this decade of 2009-2019 in which he built this process from the outside in - first we will build relations with the Arab world, and then we will reach the close circle of the Palestinians. He was right that peace can be achieved with Arab countries before the Palestinians. I argued with this thesis quite a bit, and he was right. I was wrong."
By the way, when was the last time you met with Netanyahu?
"The last time we met one on one was in 2009."
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