Thorben Albrecht: "Unions are in the middle of a learning process"

With the fog of inflation blurring the global economy, the job market is struggling to stay on an increasingly zigzag track.

Thorben Albrecht (Lüneburg, Germany, 52 years old), policy director of the German metallurgical union IG Metall, defends that it is precisely in moments of greatest uncertainty that the representation of workers is at stake.

Before participating in the event "The role of unions in Dual Vocational Training: the vision from Germany and Spain", held at the Espacio Bertelsmann, he spoke to EL PAÍS at the reception of a central Madrid hotel.

Question

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Do you think that inflation is overshadowing the real economic problems of many countries?

Answer

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I think rising prices are the main problem for people.

But that cannot leave aside other much-needed transformations that are taking place right now, such as the greening of industries and digitization.

They are there to stay and need to be addressed now.

Q.

Is it necessary to raise a debate about the EU's bilateral trade agreements?

A.

With Russia's war in Ukraine we are seeing how geopolitical risks are increasing.

The Chinese government is substituting more and more industrial products from outside China with its own products.

Also the US, with the Inflation Reduction Act, is launching aid for the purchase of electric vehicles manufactured there and that distorts competition.

With the pandemic we have learned that we have to diversify our economies, which means that we have to think about who our future trading partners should be and how to establish good terms with them.

But it is also important for us as unions that workers' rights and human rights are taken into account in these types of agreements.

Q.

Do you think that the protectionist policies that some countries are deploying are a response to fear over the current situation or a long-term strategy?

A.

I think it has more to do with the current situation, but what we really have to think about is in which countries we can diversify supply chains, without forgetting human rights, workers' rights and environmental standards.

Q.

Is it possible to combine this respect for the environment with preserving working conditions and stimulating the transformation of production?

R.

The truth is that the current reality says the opposite.

We, as representatives of the workers, have to think about new business models because the management does not do it.

They only think about profits and short-term strategies, and this is a problem.

But of course, now, in this situation of inflation, we can see that the benefits are still very high.

In Germany we carried out a series of strikes with which we achieved a good wage agreement in the metal sector (8.5% in the next two years).

Q.

Are companies transferring the increase in costs to prices to protect their profits?

A.

Some are doing it, it is true, but others are in a difficult situation.

Even so, some energy companies have very high windfall profits, and that is why taxes are being passed in Germany to tax these profits.

Q.

Is there a global wage crisis?

R.

Sticking to the situation in Germany, which is the one I know best, it is true that we have high salaries, but we also have high productivity and high benefits.

So I think it's a matter of fairness that salaries in general are so high there right now.

Now, we can see that wages on average, even in Germany, lag behind inflation.

So there are some sectors, like metal, where we already have good collective agreements, but in other sectors, where workers are in a much weaker position because they don't have strong representation, better wages will have to be negotiated.

Q.

During your time as Secretary of State at the Federal Ministry of Labor and Social Affairs (2014-2018), you promoted the approval of the minimum wage in Germany.

What effects has it had on the country's economy?

A.

We had to face the arguments that are commonly used against it, such as that it would destroy jobs.

But we have seen that only positions with very short part-time shifts, one or two hours, have disappeared.

In general, jobs have increased in Germany.

Now a new rise has been approved (of 12 euros an hour since October) that has not produced any negative effect on employment either.

Q.

Is the job market going through one of its biggest transformations?

R.

We are in a moment of change, but it will not be greater than when we entered digitization.

Very important steps forward are being taken in some sectors, such as the automobile industry, fundamental for Germany.

We have entered a transition from combustion engines to electric motors, in addition to all the digital issues surrounding autonomous driving.

This will cause a large number of highly technical jobs to be generated that will have to be covered.

Q.

Do you think unions will be able to adapt to the new ways of working, which are less and less related to physical presence in a center or office?

A.

Well, I am quite optimistic that the unions are here to stay.

It is true that there are some debates as to whether they are a thing of the past.

But we have seen that in periods of crisis, workers realize that they are very weak if they are not well represented.

But unions also have to change.

Earlier he spoke of the type of positions that the automotive sector is going to demand.

We have to know how to organize ourselves for the new groups of workers.

Unions have to make sure that they are not only attractive to production workers, but also to software workers.

Q.

Is it the biggest challenge you have faced in recent decades?

R.

During the pandemic it was difficult for us to reach the workers because you could not enter the factory or the offices.

But we learned to do it.

With the platforms, the unions are beginning to be more and more able to organize workers, to fight for their rights, so that they are not seen as autonomous, but as employees.

So I think we are in a learning process.

Q.

You have giants like Amazon or Twitter in front of you.

A.

I have seen that there are Twitter workers trying to contact the person who created the union at Amazon.

We know Elon Musk well in Germany, because he is building a huge car factory there.

And now we are organizing the workers for the first Works Council.

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