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Despite his youth, Joan Groizard (Palma, 1989) celebrates four years these days at the head of the Institute for Energy Savings and Diversification (IDAE), where he arrived shortly before the pandemic turned the world upside down and caused — ultimately—an acceleration in the transition towards renewables.
An Energy and Environment Engineer from the University of Cambridge, he attends EL PAÍS during the latest edition of Genera, the great conclave of green energies in Spain.
Ask.
After a slight recovery in the final stretch of last year, electricity demand is falling again.
Answer.
The final photo we have is a non-transparent mix of several factors that go in opposite directions and end up contaminating: economic activity and electrification [which increase demand];
and energy efficiency and self-consumption, which depress it.
We were used to correcting for work hours and temperatures, but now we have to do finer monitoring.
Q.
Industrial consumption still hasn't taken off.
A.
Beyond current data, the structural trend is positive: we are seeing appetite to connect to the Spanish electricity grid, because electricity here is going to be more affordable.
There are reasons for optimism.
Both electrification and storage are the two keys to this legislature.
Q.
Network connection request data is scarce.
Is there a need for more transparency?
A.
Yes. Greater transparency would lead to better decision-making by all agents.
Just as in generation, the capacity in each node must be public.
It is no longer enough for the first to arrive to obtain permission to connect and keep it forever: he has to meet certain milestones.
It is an indication that [connection for] consumption requests are accumulating.
Q.
There is a risk of speculation, then.
A.
In generation, what we saw a few years ago is that there were projects with the aim of developing parks and operating them, and other requests that were motivated by speculative purposes and that said: "I'll get the permit and then I'll see what I do with it."
The increase in demand requests may suggest a certain element like that.
It makes sense: Spain is an attractive country to connect to, because electricity is going to be cheaper thanks to renewables and, when something is attractive, there are agents who look for short-term opportunities.
We want to give access to whoever presents a better project, not to the first to ask for it.
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Q.
Why is the take-off of the electric car being slower in Spain?
A.
It is something multifactorial.
In Norway, which is the great benchmark, the taxation of fossil cars is such that it is much more expensive than an electric one.
What would the reaction be if the Government proposed an increase in taxes on fossil cars here?
It is a debate that would be interesting, at least philosophically.
In Portugal, gasoline and diesel are much more expensive than in Spain.
Do we want to make combustion vehicles or gasoline more expensive to accelerate that signal?
In December we already reached 15% of registrations of electrified vehicles, surpassing diesel vehicles.
If they had told us four years ago we would have said: “hahaha, how outrageous.”
Well we are there now.
Electric mobility in Spain is already a viable reality both logistically and economically: what you save on gasoline and with the aid and deductions, it pays off.
The great challenge is that of making decisions, which are not based on purely rational criteria: in our daily lives we do not make decisions either as companies or as research centers.
Q.
Do you think, then, that opting for a combustion car is not rational?
A.
It is not fully rational.
In many cases, the most rational thing would be to buy an electric vehicle.
For those who have a car just in case or for a trip during the year, maybe not.
But in many cases, the most common in Spain, the most rational thing would be to buy an electric vehicle.
Q.
Do you defend the Norwegian way of fiscally penalizing combustion cars?
A.
For the Norwegian context of income and distances, it works.
Would it work in Spain?
We have to build our own model, not import it automatically.
One of the great taboos in Spain is, unfortunately, that of taxation: we need it to be greener and for whoever pollutes to pay.
That it gives the appropriate signals, that it is socially progressive and that it does not put the transition on the shoulders of those who cannot and should not bear it.
Q.
Aerothermal or renewable gas while maintaining the current boilers?
A.
Fossil boilers can reach almost 100% efficiency, while heat pumps reach efficiencies of 200% or 300%: there is no comparison.
Renewable gases make a lot of sense in uses that are difficult to decarbonize, but replacing fossil gas with biogas in all consumption does not make sense.
A decarbonized world is a world in which all uses that can be efficiently electrified are electric.
Q.
The big problem with the heat pump is its high initial cost.
A.
Yes. Although, again, if we look at the entire useful life, in many cases it pays off.
There is a lot of room for private financing, because they are improvements that pay for themselves: just as a financial institution sells us and wonderfully finances a trip, surely it can also finance us a heat pump, which it knows we can return because we are going to save on the bill.
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Q.
Why isn't biomethane taking off in Spain?
France or Denmark are several lengths ahead.
A.
There is enormous potential, but we have to reflect on how it is paid for.
It is a debate that must be had in this legislature: just as there are biofuel obligations for gasoline and diesel, should there be contribution obligations for renewable gas or a premium for biomethane?
I think it makes sense, but someone has to pay for that, so it would increase the gas bill.
Q.
It is a debate, today, that does not exist.
A.
I would love for us to be able to have it in a calm way, without mentioning Latin American countries or extinct Soviet republics.
We would advance much faster, both in the energy field and in many others.
Q.
Self-consumption grew a lot in 2021 and 2022, but last year it slowed down.
A.
2022 was exceptional: post-pandemic economic reactivation, skyrocketing electricity prices, aid... It is not a standard year to aspire to.
What we want is sustained and sustainable growth, not saw teeth.
Q.
Aren't you worried about the slowdown, then?
A.
I think it is a sign of maturation: it cannot grow by double digits every year.
What would worry me is if we treated a peak exercise like a normal one.
There are literally millions of roofs left to cover and we have to have a future perspective.
Q.
There are long delays in granting aid.
A.
The management of these funds has been a challenge for us and for the autonomous communities.
The vast majority of applications will receive aid, but the window has already closed.
For the funds that may remain, we will look for niches in which we understand that they will contribute the most value, such as collective self-consumption.
Q.
Do you understand the anger of those who have been waiting for up to two years?
A.
I understand the frustration faced with longer-than-expected procedures.
The administrations have implemented a very guaranteeing process, shielding us against irresponsible practices with public funds.
And that means that you have to ask for a lot of paperwork to give a single euro of aid.
Q.
The execution rates vary greatly between some communities and others.
A.
It's not time to fight, it's time to work together.
We have published the status of processing by communities so that, each of us in our little plot, we are responsible for the part that we have: there are those that are at 60%, 70% or 80%... And others that are in 5%, 10% or 15%.
The other side of the coin of downward tax competition on the part of some communities is that projects are not processed as quickly as we would like.
If we want agile administration, we need resources.
And that is paid for, like all life, with fair and adequate taxation.
Everything goes in the
pack
.
Groizard, before the interview. JUAN BARBOSA
Q.
In some areas of the sector there is a certain shadow of doubt about the future of hydrogen.
The IEA fears that only 7% of the announced projects will end up becoming a reality in 2030.
A.
We are experiencing an accelerated transition: in 2020, in the first PNIEC, hydrogen still appeared very timidly;
Now, with only a part of what is on the table, we reach 11 gigawatts, seven more than in the hydrogen roadmap.
As in everything that grows quickly, there will be more solvent, more mature projects and others that have joined the wave.
Q.
The next revolution is that of batteries.
A.
Yes. We have all the elements: there are promoters;
inverters: a necessity on the part of renewable developers, who are going to have to integrate a lot of energy into the network;
and industrial consumers who want renewable energy right when they need it.
After renewables, the next big avalanche is going to be storage.
Q.
There are voices that criticize the National Integrated Energy and Climate Plan (PNIEC) for being “unrealistic.”
What would I say to them?
A.
There are those who told us that the first PNIEC was not realistic either... And many of those agents, in their allegations for updating [the plan], have asked us for more ambition because some variables have fallen short.
It is technically and economically viable.
Q.
In recent weeks, the recycling of solar panels and wind turbines has burst into public debate.
Is the problem being exaggerated?
A.
There is a double standard with the environmental group and renewables, with demands that, sometimes, even reach the level of parody.
Any energy development requires a physical location and materials.
The fantastic thing about green energy is that its raw material is also, by definition, renewable: you don't set fire to silicon, steel or fiberglass units like you do with oil and gas.
They are perfectly recyclable materials.
All renewables are recyclable.
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