Yaacov Achimair said goodbye to the viewers at the end of the last program presented by "Roim Olam" on Khan 11, which was broadcast on February 1, 2020/Kan Corporation
I meet with Yaakov Achimair a day after he announced his resignation from the chairmanship of the Peres Israel Media Committee, and his phone keeps ringing.
Everyone wants to interview him.
Our meeting is held shortly after Minister Yoav Kish called him and talked to him at length.
"The headlines say that I resigned, but the correct wording would be that the Minister of Education was the one who actually dismissed the Israel Awards ceremony when he decided not to award the award," explains Achimair.
"I admit that I found myself surprised by Kish's decision, who did call me and explained to me that he was announcing the candidates and the ceremony would only take place not on time due to the situation we are in."
What did you answer him?
"Overall, I heard what he had to say, it was in no way a dialogue. From time to time I commented but I didn't protest, so many headlines were made of it, so let me tell you the truth, I resigned and remained firm in my decision. The Israel Awards are a symbolic thing , and no one comes and says to him, 'Mr. Minister, they will be angry with you because you are disrupting the tradition here.' Years ago I was released from the Broadcasting Authority and now also from the committee."
The other day, Kish announced that he would award the awards as planned after the legal advisor decided not to defend his position at the High Court, "in order not to create an unnecessary fight and discussion when the outcome in the legal aspect is clear and known in advance, I chose to change the initial decision and award the Israel Awards in the various categories, along with awarding The revival awards, on the upcoming Independence Day," he wrote. But Achimair clarifies that his resignation stands. "I was called by the award committee to inform me of Kish's decision," he says. "I welcomed the minister's decision, but I am not changing my mind on the matter.
" Did you feel when you heard Eyal Waldman's speech in the Knesset committee after it was decided to cancel the prize in the field of entrepreneurship, and did your decision to resign as the head of the committee have anything to do with that, because you felt that politics was being done here behind your back
? It is true or false.
I suppose if it had come to my attention as a journalist, I would have checked if there was anything in it, but it has nothing to do with my decision." Just a week ago, a new book by Yaakov Achimair, winner of the Sokolov Prize for 2005 and winner of the Israel Prize for Communication for 2012, was published, which bears the name "So far Yaacov Achimair.
My life in the shadow of Aba" (published by Sela Meir).
In the book Achimair tells the story of his life as the son of one of the most controversial people in the history of the Land of Israel, Abba Achimair, one of the spiritual leaders of the revisionist movement, one of the founders of the "Thug Alliance" underground and also the man who ignited the rebellion against British rule but was denounced by the Mapai government after his name was linked for the murder of Arlozorov, until he was completely cleared of all suspicion.
In the book, Achimair also tells the story of his glorious career as a senior journalist at the Israel Broadcasting Authority, intertwined with the great moments of Israeli history, and it also contains a glimpse behind the scenes of the media world and embarrassing moments of the Prime Ministers and some of our senior public figures over the years.
The writing of the book, he says, came from the pressure of his family members to document not only the family story but also the story of his life.
"I found it rather obligatory after my retirement to detail chapters in my life, about my family and my journalistic ways, so that there would be first-hand documentation and not rely only on what is written in newspapers, articles or talk shows," he says.
The writing process was easy and natural for him: "I'm not a writer, so I chose to write the book in a journalistic style, the same style in which I would write a narration for an article or article in a newspaper, without exhortations of beautiful expressions."
Yaakov Achimair/Maariv, Rami Zarnagar
When I ask what he thinks his father would have thought about the personal confessions in the book and the book itself, I feel that Achimair is a little embarrassed.
His relationship with his father is complex, and the opening sentence in his book, "All my life I live in the shadow of my father, Abba Achimair", perhaps testifies to everything. "If he was proud of the book?
I don't know what his manners of assessment were, he died in 1962 and that was a long time ago.
But what was important for me to reflect in the book are two things, how much my father's loneliness among Israeli society was almost complete, the loneliness as a result of being taken out of the camp because of polemics and fights, and how much he was an admired person."
His retirement from public life happened earlier than usual, after the plot of Arlozorov's murder, of which, as stated, he was completely acquitted.
"He retired from public life, because he was still in prison, not because of the murder.
Evidence was brought to the attention of the investigating judge who would decide on the filing of an indictment, a procedure taken from British law in the days of the mandate, and the judge told him 'you are eligible, you are not even accused'.
But back to your question, I don't know what he would have said about the book, he rarely talked about details of his life either, he was a moderate and reserved person.
He had two faces, hatred and admiration - some hated him and some admired him.
And in the book I try to describe it through all kinds of events and incidents."
Achimair (85), who was born in Ramat Gan, grew up in Jerusalem, studied at Dvir Gymnasium and after serving in the Armored Corps, studied history and political science at the Hebrew University, says that as someone who grew up as a "son of" they expected him to "I didn't live up to all the expectations," he says, and in his book he writes: "I am not and was not a son of my father's spiritual image.
little
My head was not crowned with any aura, I do not have the qualities of a leader who sweeps many after him."
You mention, among other things, that you grew up with the feeling that blue blood flows in your veins, what does that mean?
"I felt this way not because I am the son of a king, but out of pride that I am my father's son.
When I was a child, I was always asked very carefully if I was related to him or if I was related, a question that was always asked with trepidation.
Even at my bar mitzvah, all the dedications I received for the books were titles that come from the fact that I am his son."
And in your first days as a media person, when you are a junior news editor at Kol Israel, you are tasked with editing the transcripts of Ben-Gurion's speech, which blasphemes your father in a heated debate in the Knesset in a harsh manner The most, and not only that, but a senior editor puts this transcript in front of you and demands that you prepare a news item. How did you feel?
"First of all, you are hurt, very offended when they write and say that about your father, and on the other hand I should be proud of him, both proud and offended, And only a psychologist will resolve this tangle.
I constantly had to be on alert to protect my father's name, and this happened even before I was in the media.
So I decided to take the path of due diligence.
My father was accused of sympathizing with fascism, and instead of arguing I say: it is true, he sympathized with what fascism was in that period.
He didn't excuse it.
He saw fascism in the past as the main means of fighting Bolshevism.
My father was an anti-communist, and I always say he was the number one anti-communist in Israel."
You start working in the Israeli media, which was completely identified with the left, with the name Achimair and the baggage that follows it. A bit of a foreigner.
"In my first position as a news editor in the Kol Israel system, I worked in the presence of very good people like Prof. Yeremiahu Yuval and Yigal Lucin, who had distinctly left-wing views, and I was the only one who might not have been like that. I respected them very much and there was no political interest between us. But I remember that when He was elected in '77, everyone's face was sad, they were in mourning. In general, the entire election campaign before '77 was marked by the blackening of Begin's name, and my late father also said because of his beliefs that he did not believe that the government would pass from the Labor camp to the right-wing national camp in a proper way. But I was a political reporter at the time, and I saw how Rabin transferred power to Begin in such a dignified and quiet manner, and in that sense my father's prediction was not correct."
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Yaakov Achimair/Maariv, Rami Zarnagar
"My father was never interviewed by the Voice of Israel," writes Achimair in his book, "despite being a journalist, publicist, doctor of philosophy and a man of wide knowledge and a rare ability to express himself. Wasn't my father an interesting personality to say the least? Of course he was, but those were the days of Ben's reign -Gurion and the Voice of Israel station was a department in the Prime Minister's Office. I assume that it was agreed upon by the senior editors that Father should not be interviewed. He did not belong to the right camp."
Has the thought ever crossed your mind that you were in the "right" camp, were you Mr. TV?
"No. I am not such an important person. Haim Yavin was sitting on this couch just yesterday. I never felt deprived. But regarding the camp, to this day sometimes when I am driving a car and someone is driving and I tell him to 'turn left', I shout to him from the back seat that there is no I have the left."
For years you managed to keep your political views down, which is rare to find in the media today, what do you think about what is happening in the field today?
"I think that the media today is very superficial and suffers from uncivilized writing. Take for example the treatment of Netanyahu. At the time I wanted to make a list of all the blasphemies that are hurled at Netanyahu. Assig, because the fact that he is wrong, that he behaved wrong is clear, there are no differences of opinion on that . But it depends on how you express it."
You yourself said that the propaganda against Begin was also difficult, is this a tendency of the media in your view to criticize those who are not in the "right" milieu?
And you have often stated that the left is trying to exclude the right from outside the camp, to exclude and marginalize.
"There is a difference between words of rivalry and hatred. And here there is hatred. It started in the 1977 elections with Begin. The formation was also involved in all kinds of corruption matters, whether they tried to appoint Aharon Yadlin as governor of the Bank of Israel and discovered that he was not in order, or regarding the suspicions against Avraham Ofer, who was appointed Minister of Housing, and the media always attacked the right."
"The media needs to do a big soul-searching with itself. Today being stately and polite is the biggest disaster," says Achimair, who was perceived as one of the most stately figures, until he found himself also wallowing in the mire of Twitter.
"I get bad reactions there for everything I write."
And he admits that sometimes he too is wrong.
I was surprised, I suppose like many, when I suddenly saw you there sending.
"Look, I was known as someone who doesn't highlight my political affiliation to the right, so really most of the time it was like that later, and then I saw that on social networks anyone can say what they want about whom they want and how they want, so I joined the orchestra. As far as journalistic work is concerned, I follow the New York Times almost every day, you won't see such expressions, and you won't see such language in the press. People make fun of me for being a bit of a state, for me it comes from home."
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Yaacov Achimair with Yitzhak Rabin and Eitan Haber in Gali IDF, February 1990/Reuven Castro
And he remembers one instance in which he apologized to an interviewee because he felt that he had failed to humble his views.
"I presented a news edition or talk show in the studio and interviewed Muhammad Bracha, who was an MK in the Hadash party, and then, when the interview was over, I felt bad about myself. I called him after I thought I was too rigid and I was not ashamed to tell him, 'I think not I treated you well.' This would have caused the majority of the population in Israel to behave differently. But when they see it in the media, they realize that it's the bon ton. It's such a shame, you know, because they say that the Jewish people produce talents and Nobel Prize winners, but it can be more respectable and noble".
But not only the media is blatant, just watch the Knesset channel.
"It's terrible in the Knesset. I remember that after Tali Gottlieb gave her first speech, when no one knew who she was, I sat down and wrote an article in which I explained that the Likud faction should seat MK Gottlieb next to one of the veteran MKs, if only to learn how to behave in the Knesset . They didn't sit down and she didn't change. And it's not that there weren't very heated polemics once, Begin against Peres, there were, but they didn't talk like that."
Let's put things on the table, when you talk about a blunt style, do you specifically mean criticizing Netanyahu?
"I think it is personal against him. Again, there is a difference between criticizing an opponent and hatred. The media in the past was cleaner in the sense of using the vocabulary. It was not clean in terms of the fervor of polemics, the fervor of debate. But the language is difficult. Today's media needs to take stock Mainly about the style, that's not how we talk."
The words "bibist" and "shoffer" have been attached to Ahimeir in recent years, mainly in discussions on Twitter, and even though he has expressed support for Netanyahu on various occasions, according to him, when it comes to his attitude towards the prime minister, he is matter-of-fact and critical and does not hide it, and perhaps, like his father, he has never been part of a herd, and certainly does not apologize For that.
Achimair even states that he was never politically biased in his journalistic work, so much so that even Begin scolded him in an interview he conducted with him after the great victory and even mocked him.
Achimair writes in the book that he felt that Begin disliked him, perhaps because he expected that his "son of" would present him with convenient questions.
And he points out that time after time Begin's attitude towards him was more demanding than the cordial attitude he showed towards other journalists, and he wrote: "I ignored Begin's request for special treatment on my part, and politely presented him with pointed questions."
Achimair: "After Begin died and I spoke bluntly about him, Heda de Bouches, who was in her sights, made fun of me, and wrote, 'It is obvious from Yaakov Achimair that he is sorry for Begin's death', 'that's right', I wrote, 'she was right'."
So are you disappointed with Netanyahu's conduct?
"I think one of Netanyahu's shortcomings is his arrogance, he behaves arrogantly, the story of fixing the defects in the swimming pool for example. Dear Sir, you are in the State of Israel where not only millionaires live, and you are also the prime minister. He repeatedly fails himself by his behavior Inadequate. The one who really harmed him is his son and the pose of me and nothing more. Even if he asks to finance some kind of renovation and it might be legal, that doesn't mean it's wise, and it doesn't mean you have to demand this financing. I don't like these aspects Netanyahu is a big miss, and it is entirely his, because he has all the leadership skills to be an important and influential leader, he has wonderful rhetoric, rich experience, he is educated, he was ambassador to the United Nations, he comes from a good family, as they say, but he is wrong .
The hatred, by the way, moved from Shimon Peres to him in the 1996 elections."
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Jacob Achimair receives the Israel Prize/Omer Miron
Almost four years ago, Achimair's work at the Public Broadcasting Corporation was terminated, where he continued with his program "Roim Olam", which he received as an "inheritance" from the Broadcasting Authority.
In terms of ratings, he had no chance.
While the commercial channels listened to the heart murmurs of the viewers who preferred reality TV, the viewing percentages in the early days of the corporation were not very high.
The dismissals from the Broadcasting Corporation, which Prime Minister Netanyahu even said were done for political reasons, left him with a scar. The corporation itself explained at the time that alternatives were offered to Achimair.
Achimair: "The way they ended my job left a bitter taste.
The work was stopped without them giving me a reason why, I guess it was because of my age or something like that, because Roim Olam was very grand.
At first I said: OK, get another editor (Achimair edited and submitted "Roim Olam" - Tal), and when I asked the one who informed me on the phone without prior warning that I didn't have to come to work from tomorrow, it was a surprising thing. They didn't write me a letter They wrote formally: We thank you for your many years of work. I thought it was fitting that after 50 years of work I was entitled to at least a few words of appreciation, but I received nothing."
After he was fired from the broadcasting corporation, Achimair became a regular panelist on Nev Raskin's morning show.
"I worked there for a year, and one day one of the managers there called me, and informed me that tomorrow I would stop working, I asked him if something had happened, since I had no hints that it was going to happen, he said that they wanted to refresh the panel. So I continued out of curiosity to watch some More days to see who refreshes me, and then I recognized a participant that I didn't particularly like, I was a little offended here as well."
How about channel 14?
"I don't watch it much, but I understand that in terms of ratings it has a big increase. Of course, all the channels cancel and underestimate Channel 14, but they are making a mistake, because they cannot ignore its high ratings. Sometimes the ratings are even higher than Channel 11's, not that A big trick. But it shows that there is a certain lack of other channels, which creates a thirst among the audience to also hear additional opinions that are not expressed on these channels. Sometimes there are quotes on the net from things said on the channel, and all you have to do is go in and read the comments like 'It's good that there is a channel where you see the truth' This indicates that there is a segment of the population that thirsts for the style and content of this channel, and it cannot be denied."
What channel are you watching?
"I mostly watch the Mezzo channel, for hours, because I like classical music, and I watch the news on all the channels. But I find that the newscast of Channel 13 is not bad at all. I understand that they have problems, but they do a good job. I remember when the PA The ratings of the 'Roim Olam' broadcast dropped from 98% to 92% and I was very worried, but we are in a different time."
Everyone is talking about the collapse of the concept after October 7, and even though you belong to the right side of the map, nevertheless the government did not really function at the beginning of the war, we did not see leadership here.
Has something changed in you?
"In the political matter, there was no need to change. I watch all the talk shows in the studios about political matters, for and against, and they invite commentators who know exactly what goes through Bibi's head, and what Sanwar thinks, and just envy them how well they know everything and understand everything. And the hosts ask, Why does Hamas do this and that, and the commentators, some of whom are certified Orientalists, answer seriously. And I sit on the sofa here in the living room and answer in their place that they hate us, because they simply do not want the state to exist. It is very simple. I think this is one of the tragedies of the October 7 massacre, this Another step and step in history, and I'm only talking about facts here.
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Yaakov Achimair/Maariv, Rami Zarnagar
"Before Israel became an empire, established settlements, back when the country was within the borders of '67, the PLO organization was established, which is an organization for the liberation of Palestine.
I'm not trying to convince you, but what exactly did they want to release?
We were at the limits of the division and that's it.
Over the years, after we had already left Gaza, they continued to shell the settlements in the Gaza Envelope along the border.
Why?
Why are you throwing shells at kindergartens?
And the most current example is the attitude of Hamas and Sanwar to the abductees.
They are not even ready to provide what is also customary between enemy countries in times of war, which is the names of the abductees.
It's really terrible."
After the last election, you were interviewed and even criticized the media's dark prophecies towards the current government, and you didn't understand why it was so upset by, for example, the appointment of Ben Gabir as Minister of National Security. In retrospect, do you regret it?
"I repeat what I said then, But only in light of his record in the position.
At the time when I said this, I was under the impression that Itamar Ben Gvir had changed his behavior, and his statements leading up to the elections probably wanted to convey that he is a different person.
I even kept press clippings on my desktop when he said he was disowning Meir Kahane.
But in light of the fact that I was deceived, I changed my mind."
We are meeting a day after the publication of the conclusions of the Miron Disaster Committee. I assume that, like me, you read the Likud's response to the issue, a response that drew strong reactions even among some of the camp's supporters.
"The Likud, in all its stupidity, said that the investigation committee is a committee Politically and that one of its members supports Lapid, as if that is even relevant.
It's a stupid reaction."
The Prime Minister did not take responsibility, nor yet about October 7.
"He should take responsibility.
I assume that a state commission of inquiry will be established that will give its recommendations regarding Netanyahu and the Chief of Staff."
You spoke quite a bit in favor of the legal reform as well.
In light of what is happening today do you think it was a mistake?
"Basically, the reform is fine and should be done, but not in the way it was done. In my eyes, the legal reform is an important thing, and although I am not a lawyer, I understand that the phenomenon of blurring between the authorities in Israel, between the judiciary and the legislative authority, is something that needs to change. There are court decisions Supreme that laws become laws because of habit, in my opinion this is an illegal invasion of the legislative authority. A buffer should be put between the authorities, and the intrusion of one authority into another is not normal in my eyes. But Levin's opponent presented the reform in a careless manner. He did not warn in advance and did not come to the speaker's stand and the explanation will be like this And so on."
You can understand the anger in the hatchet.
"There was a problem with the timing. You don't introduce such a revolutionary proposal, you present it. I remember when I was a reporter in the Knesset and they decided on a direct vote with two ballots, the discussions were so serious before that they even came to a vote in the plenum. That's why there are decisions that need to be prepared first , and even educate".
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Yaakov Achimair/Maariv, Rami Zarnagar
Do you have faith in the governmental system in Israel?
"No. Because it's not organized, it's messed up. Take the small matter of Israel's awards being rejected, and there are plenty of examples. I think the root of the matter is that Israel doesn't have a constitution. I'm very influenced by the systems of government and justice in the United States. The constitution has lasted so long Many years with the amendments attached to it. I lived in Washington as a Broadcasting Authority envoy during the Watergate affair, and the order in which Kissinger submitted the President's letter of resignation to the Secretary of State, who passed it on, struck me. With us, any nonsense immediately becomes a headline and a crisis in the coalition. The resignation Nixon's was so smooth, I won't say 'pleasant' because they hated him, but so orderly, and everything according to the constitution."
In 1977, Achimair was sent to interview Yitzhak Rabin upon his resignation as prime minister following the dollar account affair.
Rabin and Ahimeir had close friendships, despite the political differences.
"The connection with Rabin was really an interesting phenomenon, I really appreciated him because of his qualities and his honesty. He was very shy and withdrawn, and I am also a withdrawn person and unfortunately not sociable. I met him when I was a reporter in Washington and he served as ambassador. He, by the way, spoke about the Palestinians in a way Very difficult, and from my impression, if Rabin was an American citizen, he would be a Republican and not belong to the Democratic Party."
This interview is striking in its simplicity, not to mention its innocence.
"He did resign because of the regulation that it is forbidden to have a bank account abroad.
I remember interviewing him and asking him about his wife possibly going to trial, and he said 'I'm in on this whole thing.'
He made no excuse.
Some asked me, 'How do you explain the mistake he made?'
And I explain it with his honesty.
Sometimes he would call me at home after he would receive the content of my broadcasts and tell me 'I made a mistake here', 'There is an error here'.
It was a meeting between two people who have political differences but a meeting between similar minds.
Both Begin and Shamir appreciated him very much.
I don't know if he appreciated me.
It's hard for me to say that there was mutual appreciation between us, because I'm just a small fisherman born in Ramat Gan and he was the prime minister." Did
this relationship help you as a journalist?
"He didn't reward me and didn't leak anything to me.
I guess people on the right were a little surprised at how I maintain contacts with him."
Netanyahu was also interviewed by Ahimair in the news broadcast he edited, where the prime minister, who was then serving as a member of the Knesset, came to confess following the "hot tape" affair. "Rafik Halavi, who knew what it was about , asked me to ask Netanyahu the obvious question, and I told him that I neither ask nor am I interested in what a person does in his private life, so the question in question was passed from me to the one sitting next to me, the reporter for police affairs at the time, the late Uri Cohen Aharonov. Later they said, 'How Ahimeir missed asking the prime minister the question.''
We are living in one of the turbulent times of the State of Israel, certainly for those who work in the media.
Would you return to television today?
"Yes. Unequivocally, yes. Certainly there are broadcasters who are much more talented than me, but I have always loved this profession very much, maybe I am not that talented, but I was very diligent. With my hand on my heart, the period when I am without a permanent job is very difficult for me, I I have to say it. Maybe I should consult a gerontologist."
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Jacob Achimair
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