SPD candidate duo: Köpping and Pistorius bring tax cuts into play

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Mrs. Köpping, Mr. Pistorius, you are running for the SPD presidency. How do you stand out from the other candidate duo, what is your brand essence?

Petra Köpping: We are trained local politicians.

Boris Pistorius: And additionally state politician. I would say: we translate politics.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: They were both mayors, of whom it is often said that they are closer to the people. That always sounds great, but what does that actually mean?

Köpping: Anyone who starts his political career with local politics is closer to office than many others. Whether this is the road construction or the broken lantern - you learn from the beginning to listen to what people have to say. That may not be quite as dazzling as some in federal politics. But it shapes you and is often more important and tangible to many people. The renewal of the party must therefore come from the countries and municipalities. There the party of many places has more confidence than at the federal level. We have to use that. That's what we stand for.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Was SPD politics too withdrawn in recent years?

Köpping: Anyway, we have often discussed theoretically and argued too often ideologically. To give an example: All people want social justice. But no one really understood what we actually wanted there. Then you do not need to be surprised about lack of approval.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: There is no shortage of specific SPD laws in the grand coalition.

Pistorius: No, they are also right and important. But just because a few gifts are under the Christmas tree, so is not the wish list for the next year. We must also talk about visions, about a fairer distribution of wealth in our country. We need a big tax reform. 40 percent of households have no financial air to build wealth, be it investment income or real estate. You have not inherited anything. These households have no reserves and live in permanent risk. They can not make a fortune for the material future of their family and can not do much for their children. This development is unhealthy for our society. We have to tackle the problem.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: What do you want?

Pistorius: We want to relieve the classic middle class, families and people with middle and low income. Those who finance their lives with the work of a 40-hour week. We want more net to remain from wages, but we have to lower non-wage labor costs. Non-wage labor costs are nothing more than taxes on work. Those who live on capital income do not have to pay for it. And they also pay a much lower tax rate on their investment income. Therefore, we must first tax the income from capital as well as income from labor. It can not be that the people who increase our wealth every day through hard work in the economy and the family are the pinched.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: So you want to reduce taxes?

Pistorius: Yes, and the non-wage labor costs, but for the middle class. Therefore, we also have to talk about the top tax rate. It starts way too early! It starts at about 55,000 euros, but families with a good 100,000 euros a year are of course not really rich in our view. The top tax rate may only start from a significantly higher income. We want to intelligently rebuild the tax rate together with experts and, as it were, shift it to higher incomes. The top tax rate was later and more uniformly to reach the tax rate of 45%. Depending on which total yield is needed. With the money we relieve the average labor income and get the cold progression under control. That's no problem: under Helmut Kohl, the top tax rate was 53 percent. I can not remember that the economy went down in those days.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Sigmar Gabriel said recently that the SPD is now more ecological than the green and left than the left. Is that true?

Köpping: Quite so I do not see it, but we already need a brand core. We have to say clearly where we are different from others. The distribution question is one thing, the climate policy the other. Since we should calmly ambitious proceed. But we must never lose sight of the social balance. Nobody else in politics cares about that.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Has the SPD in recent years been too much oriented towards the left-liberal metropolitan milieu?

Köpping: I think so, at least from the East German point of view. The bleeding of the rural regions has been far too long. That hurts politics overall. In East Germany there were already many changes. If we give the impression that we are talking small about change, it is dangerous for the social mood.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Do people in East Germany understand decisions such as those of the SPD in Berlin to promote feminist pornography or banish the Bundeswehr from schools?

Köpping: Let's put it this way: For rural areas this is not an urgent topic.

Pistorius: That does not interest many people. You can talk about it, yes. But it is a long way from their daily life reality. And that's not what drives the vast majority of people to sleep. How they can pay for the care of their mother or a reasonable home, on the other hand.

HC Plambeck

"Far from her daily life reality"

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Mrs. Köpping, on Sunday is elected in Saxony and in Brandenburg. In both countries, the AfD could become the strongest force. Why do so many people in the East choose the AfD?

Köpping: One background is certainly the refugee year 2015. That was a reason for the rise of the AfD throughout Germany. Second, surveys show that many East Germans feel second-class. Not only the elderly, but also the 18- to 25-year-olds: different salaries, fewer vacation days, more working hours. Third, the East Germans are generally satisfied with democracy, but when it comes to participation, we have a big deficit with the West.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: In your opinion, what is the recipe against this development?

Köpping: Address the topic first. Raise it on the political agenda in the federal government. Berlin politics needs an audible East German voice. Just like Regine Hildebrandt was. That's why I'm applying for the SPD chairmanship with Boris Pistorius.

HC Plambeck

"Politics needs an audible East German voice"

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Do you have to talk to AfD supporters?

Köpping: The AfD had for the federal election 2017 in Saxony 670,000 voters, but has no 5000 members in the Saxon state association. Of course, people want to get people back into the democratic spectrum. Dialogue, talking to each other, communication is very important, but there are limits. If it is racist or xenophobic, if someone leaves the ground of the Basic Law, it stops with me. But more important is to understand what is behind the voting behavior, I have put myself to the Pegida demos and I regularly deal with AfD sympathizers - the feeling just after the turn not treated fairly and no appreciation for the last It takes many to get 30 years of construction work. You have to deal with that. The issue of refugees and asylum is very often only advanced.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: As a reason for the strengthening of the AfD also the three grand coalitions since 2005 are seen. Would you agree with that?

Pistorius: That had a share, but it's not the main cause. The AfD started as an anti-euro party and has since become incredibly radicalized, has become a reservoir of rights, right-wing populists and right-wing extremists. The grand coalition has driven one or the other to the edges, but that's not a mass phenomenon.

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SPIEGEL ONLINE: Is an AfD prohibition procedure conceivable?

Pistorius: I co-sponsored the NPD Prohibition Proceedings as Chairman of the Conference of Interior Ministers in 2013. The court has neatly worked out where the red lines of the Constitution lie for extremist parties. It's like a template that you can create. The first question would be: How anti-constitutional is the AfD? If we apply the template from the NPD verdict, I'm sure there would be some rashes beyond the red line.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: At the end of the year, the SPD takes stock of the grand coalition and thus has the chance to leave the alliance. Should she do that?

Pistorius: It's not a political position, just saying, we're getting out now. The SPD must make an independent qualitative assessment of government work. Sober, self-confident, without fear and without tactics. It is not just the coalition agreement that matters, but the right decisions for the future. Content is crucial. The SPD must once again become a party of unambiguousness and free itself from the image of a majority-procuring party. We must once again become the determining political force left of the center. So we have to link the question to content, otherwise it makes no sense. The balance sheet is one thing, but the question "What's left?" the other. The basic pension without means test, an efficient and socially fair climate protection law - The commuter with the old oil heating at home may not be the victim. And finally, everything indicates that we are entering a recession. For this, we have to make the economy and the job market "weatherproof" - and in good time. For this we need an investment program. It does not help if we hold on to the black zero with the current low interest rates.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: That was a thunderous one now as well.

Köpping: I know that you would like to have a black and white answer. But it is not that easy - and it does not live up to our expectations. As pragmatic, principled politicians, we address such questions without blinking and pre-determining. We have a responsibility for the party and for the country. We made promises. We can get out, but we need a good substantive reason.