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SPIEGEL ONLINE: Mr. Bartsch, is the Left still an East Party?
Bartsch: The Left is an all-German party. But through our history and our anchoring, we continue to be a special representative of East German interests.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Many voters apparently no longer see it that way. In the East you were once a People's Party, now you threaten in Brandenburg or Saxony results around 15 percent.
Bartsch: It is true that we have lost dramatically in recent years in some cases. The reasons are many. One reason is that we have government responsibility in three out of six countries. It's hard to explain to people why they are still stuck in Hartz IV. Hardly anyone wants to hear that this has to be clarified at the federal level.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: The price of governance is that you are shrinking?
Bartsch: Who governs is part of the establishment for many. It is therefore very important how we act in the opposition - what expectations we arouse there. We make a mistake if we resolve all the demands of the world and believe that we can implement them later. Of course you can not implement the entire left-wing program in a center-left alliance. We live in a capitalist society and even the left in government responsibility can only beat niches into the system. We have to be honest with people. And where we govern, we must better present our achievements - on the ground, but also at the federal level. This also applies to local and regional policy.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: The protest does not vote left, the new opposing party is the AfD. How are you going to bring back the hundreds of thousands of voters who have wandered from left to right?
Bartsch: We should not make the AFD strong by focusing on them all. We have to show that we are the alternative to the once grand coalition in Berlin. That's where the main responsibility lies, that people choose right.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Do not you make it a bit easy? Obviously, many of the leftists do not dare to do it better than the Union and the SPD.
Bartsch: We are in the dilemma that many agree with our analysis and goals, but doubt our ability to put things into practice. Thuringia, Brandenburg and Berlin show that it is good and makes a difference if the left is in government responsibility.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: After the upcoming elections it should be complicated to form government alliances against the AfD. They reject coalitions with the CDU. The Brandenburg left-wing candidate Kathrin Dannenberg wants to talk to the Union. What is it?
Bartsch: Of course you have to talk to each other. But our position is very clear: no coalitions with the Union at the state level. Locked out. Ingo Senftleben can still compete so desperately for the left.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: In the federal government you have been working for years on red-red-green. At the moment you can hardly save yourself from expressions of love from the SPD.
Bartsch: That is finally an expression of normality. Of course, red-red-green must be possible. If we have majorities beyond the Union on election night, we have to use them. In the future also at the federal level.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: The SPD rediscovers social justice in the crisis: It wants to overcome Hartz IV, reform the pension, a minimum wage of twelve euros is in the conversation, also a wealth tax. If the SPD moves to the left, how do you want to be distinguishable as a Left Party?
Bartsch: We have a dramatic problem of justice, with an increasing number of billionaires, while there is little left over for savers and more and more children are living in poverty. A leftist party, which poses the systemic question that society wants to restructure, remains necessary.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: The Social Democrats have come up with the idea of the system question.
Bartsch: The SPD will also have a credibility problem at the next election. Nevertheless: I wish that the SPD will find its way back to the point that together we can make policy in the interests of the majority of people.
Britta Pedersen / DPA
Disrupted leadership quartet of the left: Sahra Wagenknecht (from left), Dietmar Bartsch, Katja Kipping, Bernd Riexinger
SPIEGEL ONLINE: In Berlin, red-red-green is ruling and is currently discussing a rental cover that the well-off residents of Prenzlauer Berg and Mitte would be pleased about, but which could hardly increase the supply on the housing market. Is this solidarity politics?
Bartsch: Fact is: the horrendous rents are a serious problem for many. And the fact is also: Previous government action has hardly led to improvements. The rental price brake does not work at all. That's why I think it's good that the topic in Berlin is seriously tackled. We need a rental cover, not only in Berlin, but in the whole of Germany, even if alone, of course, will not solve the problems. About the design in detail must be spoken. Above all, we urgently need more social housing.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Who would you rather rule with the Bund - with Boris Pistorius or with Olaf Scholz?
Bartsch: I would not like to comment on individual candidates for the presidency. I hope that the decision on the next SPD leaders will make a center-left alliance more likely. The current procedure, however, in my view, is delicate.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: Scheindemokratisch?
Bartsch: What kind of procedure is it in the party of August Bebel and Willy Brandt? For weeks everyone is watching, why does not he come, why not, what does he want? Now there are tens of candidates who are already surveyed, then there are 23 regional conferences. 23! There will also be exotic positions to speak, the like in the media want. And then another ballot. Such a thing does not strengthen a party and distracts from a course determination.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: So a membership decision on the top would not be a model for the left?
Bartsch: That depends. The field of participants would have to be limited and substantive alternatives clear. At present there are hardly any application barriers. The number of those who think they can lead the party could be greater in Germany than in the SPD.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: But do you want a change at the top of your party? After all, the dispute between you and Sahra Wagenknecht as fraction leader on one side and chairmen Katja Kipping and Bernd Riexinger on the other has long burdened the party.
Bartsch: The dispute was settled, but the whole thing is working. We have the statutory recommendation in the left that terms should not last more than eight years.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: According to Kipping and Riexinger would be next year. Both have been in office since 2012.
Bartsch: In the end, it's about the strategic and programmatic orientation that a federal party convention has to decide on. Personnel decisions are related to this.
SPIEGEL ONLINE: You want to be re-elected as faction leader. Perhaps soon there will be Bundestag elections again. With you as the top candidate of the left?
Bartsch: I'm not expecting early elections. In the election to the faction leadership I will run as part of a double top. The decision to set up a staff in the general election has to be made by the party leadership to be elected next year.