SPIEGEL: In Halle, a right-wing terrorist has murdered two people. What's wrong in Germany?
Klingbeil: We had hoped that we would have left behind the anti-Semitic terror in German history. Unfortunately, that is not the case. There has been an increase in anti-Semitism and right-wing violence with terrorist acts in recent years. Our fight against it must therefore be finally more than just lip service. I think it is important to set a political and social strategy.
SPIEGEL: What should that look like?
Klingbeil: There are around 24,000 right-wing extremists in our country, more than half of whom are violent. 500 are even searched by warrant. However, they are not recorded uniformly, because there is no uniform threat file. That's a huge problem. So far, there are numerous individual measures to observe right-wing perpetrators, incapacitate and withdraw from the market. That is not enough. With a systematic coverage of right-wing perpetrators, the weapons law could be significantly tightened. A violent Nazi must immediately lose his gun license. We have to go through that harder.
SPIEGEL: Did politics and society underestimate right-wing extremism?
Klingbeil: Yes. We have been focused on Islamist terror all these years since the 9/11 attacks. That has shaped our society. We did not see what is brewing up on the right edge. Take the Identitarian Movement: It is frightening how self-confident the appearance of political offspring is. And then act as a nonprofit association on taxpayer costs. This must be over.
SPIEGEL: Do government agencies adequately protect Jews in Germany?
Klingbeil: It takes security measures in front of Jewish institutions, that much is clear. Jewish life in Germany must be protected. There can be no doubt here.
SPIEGEL: Unlike Jewish houses of worship in cities, the synagogue in Halle did not have permanent police protection. When the assassin arrived, she was apparently completely unguarded. Should Jewish institutions in Germany generally and permanently have police protection?
Klingbeil: First of all, I find it sad that we have to ask ourselves such questions in our open, pluralistic country. But the developments of the last months make a lasting protection necessary.
SPIEGEL: Bavaria's Interior Minister Joachim Hermann described AfD politicians as the right wing outside Björn Höcke as "intellectual arsonists" for the act of Halle. Is he right?
Klingbeil : If I look at how the AfD appears in the Bundestag and above all in the social networks, then there are clearly arsonists on the way. The AfD promotes disinhibition of the political debate. With its verbal taboos, the AfD creates a social climate of division. We also had to watch that before the terrible, right-wing murder of Walter Lübcke. Incidentally, the theory of individual historians, which is now recovering after the attack in Halle, downplayed reality. There are neo-Nazi structures that sway each other locally and in the network via covert networks and make them strong. Know-how and staff in government agencies must be built up in order to understand and smash these structures.
SPIEGEL: The Federal Government has passed the Climate Package and the Climate Protection Act. SPD Vice-Chancellor Olaf Scholz speaks of a big hit. They also?
Klingbeil: It is good that we now give climate protection in Germany a binding legal basis. This is a far-reaching step. We enforced that. The agreed control mechanism is decisive for the SPD: In the future, it will be reviewed each year which minister did his homework in order to save enough CO2.
SPIEGEL: Real sanctioning options do not exist. How do you force unwilling ministers to act?
Klingbeil: The ambitions in the cabinet are different strong, that's right. For example, we had to wake up Transport Minister Andreas Scheuer and Minister of Economic Affairs Peter Altmaier from a climate-political deep sleep phase. But I wish every minister a lot of fun if he does nothing and thousands of young people in front of his ministry in the coming years. Public pressure and imminent penalties to the EU will make it go ahead.
SPIEGEL: Not even your own people are satisfied with the climate package.
Klingbeil: It distinguishes the SPD that we still want more. If we were to govern alone, we would have done more. But we just had to make compromises in the coalition with the Union parties. The decisive factor is that the climate protection targets for 2030 are now anchored by law.
SPIEGEL: Have you underestimated which devastating reactions the planned CO2 price would initially trigger on just ten euros?
Klingbeil: We could have imagined more, Malu Dreyer fought for 20 euros in the negotiations. But we must not consider the CO2 price as the sole panacea. Rather, we have to convince the commuters and homeowners as much as the climate activists with the overall package. In order to achieve a steering effect, we first need alternatives to which we can steer. And they do not exist in parts of the country yet. At home in Niedersachsen in the countryside, for example, people sometimes drive 90 kilometers to work. They are not faced with the question of whether to take the car or the Bah Die must decide: by car to work or not at all. We have to get away from this lack of alternatives in the next five years. That is why we are investing heavily in the expansion of the railway and the infrastructure for electromobility.
Stimmenfang # 116 - Chronicle of a breakdown series: Why do Kramp-Karrenbauer pass so many mistakes?
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SPIEGEL: With the basic pension, you have become involved with the Union. Do you still believe in an agreement before the Thuringian election?
Klingbeil: The conversations between Hubertus Heil and Helge Braun are in progress, the working group is meeting. We are ready to move. But it is clear that we do not want to build a bureaucratic monster and that not only 150,000 people are allowed to benefit, as was the original goal of the Union, but we want to reach several million people. This is a big issue for us and I am convinced that we will agree with the Union.
SPIEGEL: Your Minister of Labor, Hubertus Heil, has set the bar very high with his concept without a means test. Is not it inevitable that the disappointment for a compromise?
Klingbeil: Why disappointment? If a compromise makes millions of people better off after working 35 years, that would be a great success for the SPD. The Union has not moved for months, but now seems to be more open.
SPIEGEL: In the CSU they say they do not let themselves be blackmailed. It could not be that ever rescue packages for the SPD would be laced.
Klingbeil: This is an arrogant language towards people who have worked for a lifetime, have done something for our society, and still can not reason with age. We do it for these people, not for the SPD. The basic pension is in the coalition agreement, which also bears the signature of the CSU.
SPIEGEL: In the coalition agreement, the basic pension is a means test.
Klingbeil: If people have to shuffle masses in front of the state to be a little better, that's the wrong way.
SPIEGEL: What is the SPD doing when there is no agreement? Is the Grand Coalition at the end?
Klingbeil: We will vote on the mid-term review at the party congress in December. If, after climate protection, we can reach an agreement on the basic pension, the balance will certainly turn out to be more positive than if we fail in this identity issue for the SPD.
SPIEGEL: Sounds a bit like blackmail now.
Klingbeil: I can not imagine that CDU and CSU because of the ground rent, the coalition burst.
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SPD: These comrades want to become party leadersSPIEGEL: Suppose someone has not noticed anything politically for the last two years. Please tell that person what happened to your party during this time.
Klingbeil: He needs a lot of time and a bottle of wine. Seriously, since I've been General Secretary, I've worked with six party leaders in less than two years. It takes a while to explain.
SPIEGEL: Then we limit ourselves to the time after the resignation of Andrea Nahles. How do you describe this elongated candidate race, which has been looking for new party leaders for months?
Klingbeil: I describe it very positively. We do that because we finally break with the rituals of the past. It should not decide again two, three people in the back room, who becomes party chairman. The procedure is a risk, there was a lot of criticism at first. But that is silent at the latest with the beginning of the tour. The 23 regional conferences with the seven bidding teams revive the party. The hut is always full, we had to move several times in larger rooms.
SPD procedure for the party presidency
The schedule at a glance:
1st of July: Applications
From this day, teams of two or individual applicants may submit their candidacy for the SPD Chairmanship. For a candidacy they need the support of at least five sub-districts, a district or a national association.
September 1: Regional conferences
The application deadline ends. The candidates then present themselves in 23 regional conferences of the base. For five weeks, they can promote themselves among the members. The prelude is on 4 September in Saarbrücken, the final on 12 October in Munich.
October 14: Basic decision
The approximately 440,000 SPD members may elect their candidate or their team of candidates for the party leadership in a basic decision .
October 26: result of the membership vote
The result of the membership decision will be presented. If no candidate or double team receives over 50 percent of the votes, there should be a casting vote between the top two. The election is not legally binding , politically, the party congress is unlikely to pass the vote of the members.
December 6-8: Party Congress
The federal party convention of the SPD is coming together in Berlin. He should formally elect the winner of the membership decision to the SPD leadership - and decide on the midterm review of the Grand Coalition.
SPIEGEL: This supposed enthusiasm is a big self-deception. That may seem inward, but send out the signal to the outside: Please do not disturb, the SPD deals with itself half a year.
Klingbeil: How do you come to this? We are capable of acting! See climate package, see basic rent. We are pushing the Union towards results, and when it does, it's not up to us. For the SPD it is very important to finally discuss different programmatic and strategic approaches on the open stage. For years we have suppressed these conflicts. And if I look now at the coming weeks, then it is crucial for me: what happens the day after the announcement of the result? I expect all the teams to join the victors.
SPIEGEL: So behind Olaf Scholz and Klara Geywitz?
Klingbeil: I bet no team. No idea who will prevail in the end. This race is open. And that's good. The members have the floor. And I notice already that the base is not only about great quick ideas, but also about who can lead the party, who can also compete with top politicians of other parties at home and abroad.
SPIEGEL: Should the SPD members also decide on the next chancellor candidate?
Klingbeil: Why not. But it is also clear that one of the two future party leaders has very good chances of becoming that.
SPIEGEL: How is it going to continue for you personally?
Klingbeil: These were two exciting years, we have reorganized the party in many areas: social welfare, care, property tax. We have begun to restructure the party headquarters. The SPD has become more campaignable. There was a need for determination and a lot of persuasion. Together with many others, who want to change something with me, we did it. That's a good way the party has to go consistently.
SPIEGEL: Sounds like an application speech as the new old Secretary General.
Klingbeil: If you want to see it that way, please. I'm in the mood to keep going.
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