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(CNN) - The US ambassador to the European Union, Gordon Sondland, testified Wednesday that there was quid pro quo for Ukraine announced investigations into political opponents of President Donald Trump who came from the personal lawyer of the president, Rudy Giuliani, under the "express address of the president".
In addition, Sondland provided the House of Representatives investigators with emails and text messages showing that not only he and Giuliani were pushing for investigations outside government channels: Trump's inner circle also knew what was happening. He even said he expressed concern with Vice President Mike Pence because the freezing of $ 400 million in security assistance to Ukraine was linked to investigations.
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Sondland's testimony is the most condemnatory evidence to date that directly implicates Trump in the quid pro quo, in the midst of the political trial investigation. His public comments show a link between US security assistance and a meeting of the White House and Ukraine publicly announcing investigations that would politically assist the president. Since the beginning of Wednesday's hearing, Sondland's comments dragged some of Trump's top officials, including Pence, his chief of staff and his secretary of state, into the scandal.
"Everyone was informed," Sondland said. "It wasn't a secret."
In his remarkable opening statement, Sondland told the House of Representatives investigators that Trump "wanted a public statement from President (Volodymyr) Zelensky pledging to investigate Burisma and the 2016 elections."
"Mr. Giuliani expressed those requests directly to the Ukrainians," said Sondland, ambassador to the European Union. “Mr. Giuliani also expressed these requests directly to us. We all understood that these prerequisites for the White House convocation and the White House meeting reflected President Trump's wishes and requirements. ”
Sondland said Trump's chief aides, including interim cabinet chief Mick Mulvaney, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and Energy Secretary Rick Perry, knew that Zelensky was informed days before the July 25 call to commit to make research.
"Everyone was informed by email on July 19, days before the presidential call," Sondland said. "When I contacted the team, I told President Zelensky in advance that the guarantees of 'carrying out a completely transparent investigation' and 'delivering every stone' were necessary in his call to President Trump."
Sondland said he told Pence before his September 1 meeting with Zelensky that "he was concerned that the delay in aid would have been related to the subject of the investigations." Sondland said Pence "nodded" in response, but didn't remember if he gave any more reaction.
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(AP Photo / Carolyn Kaster, file)
In the center of the Ukrainian storm
Of the dozen witnesses that Democrats have called to testify publicly in the political trial investigation, none had so much participation in Ukraine's momentum to announce an investigation like Sondland.
Sondland said that before his meeting on September 1 with Zelensky he told Pence, that so far he has mostly avoided being publicly involved in the Ukrainian scandal, that “he had concerns that the delay in aid would have been related to the subject of investigations ”.
Sondland testified that he could never get a clear answer as to why the security aid was frozen, but he believed that “if Ukraine did something to demonstrate a serious intention to fight corruption, specifically addressing Burisma and the 2016 server, then the help Frozen military would be raised. ”
"In the absence of a credible explanation for the suspension of aid, I came to believe later that the resumption of security assistance would not occur until there was a public statement from Ukraine committing to the investigations of the 2016 and Burisma elections," Sondland said.
Sondland's testimony that it was a "presumption" that aid was linked to investigations gave Republicans a small opportunity to argue that there was no quid pro quo linked to security aid. "President Trump never told me directly that help was conditioned to meetings," said Sondland.
Sondland, however, said he was "very clear" that there was a link between the two, even if they were not explicitly told.
“As of September 9, you understood, didn't you? that President Trump - either himself or through his agents - demanded that President Zelensky make a public announcement of the two investigations that President Trump dealt with in order to obtain a meeting at the White House and How to release security assistance? ”asked Democrat Daniel Goldman.
"I think that's right," said Sondland.
Republican lawyer Steve Castor pressured Sondland in his talks with Trump, confirming that Trump never told Sondland "personally" that there were preconditions for releasing aid or organizing the White House meeting. Castor asked Sondland how he knew Giuliani "was expressing the president's wishes."
"Well, when the president says to talk to my personal lawyer, and then Mr. Giuliani, as his personal lawyer, makes certain requests or demands, we assume it comes from the president," Sondland replied. "I do not testify that I heard the president tell Mr. Giuliani to tell us."
Castor also pointed to Sondland's reliability as a witness, noting that he had no records, did not take notes and did not remember many episodes. "I mean, this is like the trifecta of lack of reliability," he said.
"I want nothing"
Speaking to reporters when he left the White House on Wednesday, Trump repeatedly said he told Sondland over the phone that he didn't want "anything" in Ukraine.
“I tell the ambassador in response: I don't want anything, I don't want anything. I don't want quid pro quo, ”Trump said, reading notes that appear to be written in Sharpie. "Tell Zelensky, President Zelensky, to do the right thing."
Trump also downplayed his connection with Sondland, saying he "was late" as a sponsor of his 2016 campaign. "This is not a man I know well," Trump said. "He seems like a good guy, though."
Giuliani also minimized his connection with Sondland, saying in a tweet that Sondland was "speculating" and that he had "VERY little contact" with him.
The Pence office also distanced the vice president of Sondland. Pence's chief of staff, Marc Short, said the vice president "never had a conversation with Gordon Sondland about the investigation of Bidens, Burisma or the conditional release of financial aid to Ukraine based on potential investigations."
But Democrats took advantage of Sondland's comments to highlight the fact that senior Trump administration officials have hampered the political trial investigation. Sondland's testimony mentions several senior Trump administration officials who have challenged the House's subpoenas in the investigation of political trial, including Mulvaney and Pompeo, and the Trump administration has not provided any documents that have been cited.
The president of the Intelligence Chamber, Adam Schiff, said Sondland's testimony shows "that knowledge of this scheme was very broad."
"Now we can see that the sheet has been torn off, why Secretary Pompeo and President Donald Trump do not want any of these documents delivered to Congress," Schiff told reporters on Wednesday, "because they apparently show, as he has stated Ambassador Sondland, that the knowledge of this scheme to condition official acts, a White House meeting and $ 400 million in security assistance for an ally in the war with Russia, was conditioned on the political favors that the president wanted to his re-election. "
Sondland calls with Trump
Since Sondland testified behind closed doors last month, several administration officials have provided testimonies that contradict his testimony. In the case of his comments on September 1 to the Ukrainians, Sondland modified his testimony when he said he remembered that he told them that the aid was conditioned to announce investigations following the testimony of others.
Sondland was asked about other discrepancies, such as US diplomat Bill Taylor and National Security Council adviser Tim Morrison, saying that Sondland told them that the president said he wanted Zelensky to "get close to the microphone" to announce the investigations. . Taylor said Sondland told him they would be in a “stalemate” unless Zelensky made the announcement.
“I don't remember who told me, if it was (the former special envoy) Kurt Volker, if it was Giuliani or if it was President Trump, it had to be Zelensky. He could not be the Prosecutor. But that's what I relayed, ”said Sondland.
Sondland also confirmed that he spoke with Trump on July 25, hours before the president's call with Zelensky. Sondland said that "it is probable" that he had received a message from Trump that Volker had mentioned in a text message, but said he did not remember the details of the call.
Sondland also acknowledged another call he left out of his initial testimony: the July 26 conversation where US diplomat David Holmes says he heard Trump ask Sondland if Zelensky was going to "investigate," and Sondland replied that Zelensky "would" .
Sondland did not dispute those details in the call related to his conversation with Trump.
"Actually, I would have been more surprised if President Trump had not mentioned the investigations, particularly given what we heard from Mr. Giuliani about the president's concerns," he said.
But Sondland said he didn't remember mentioning the Bidens in his conversation with Holmes, making a distinction with Burisma, the natural gas company that hired Hunter Biden. “The only part of Mr. Holmes's account with which I feel exceptional is that I don't remember mentioning the Bidens. That did not occur to me. It was Burisma and the 2016 elections, ”said Sondland.
- Gregory Wallace of CNN, Alison Main, Nicky Robertson, David Wright, Olanma Mang, Raymond Arke, Kirsten Appleton and Giulia McDonnell contributed to this report.
Donald Trump political trial
