The governor of Maranhão, Flávio Dino, poses without a mask after the interview at the Palacio de Los Leones, in São Luís.Márcio Vasconcelos
The governor of Maranhão, Flávio Dino (São Luís, 52 years old), has a presence in the Brazilian national debate far above what the real weight of this small, very uneven and underdeveloped coastal state would indicate that remains at the extreme east of the Amazon.
Judge and deputy before breaking the hegemony of the local oligarchy six years ago, he combines his membership of the Communist Party of Brazil (PCdoB) with a pragmatic leftism and the Catholic faith.
Dino received this newspaper in the impressive governor's palace in his hometown, moments after Joe Biden took office in the United States.
He spoke of Bolsonaro, the pandemic, Amazonia ... He only takes off his mask to pose for a moment for photos.
Question.
How does a communist governor coexist with a far-right president?
Answer.
It is a difficult relationship because to the ideological differences is added a Bolsonaro uniqueness.
It prioritizes confrontation, it is fundamental in its political identity even to hide its incompetence.
Coexistence is very difficult with everyone.
It is the period in our history when there is the greatest distance between the federal government and the state governments.
Of course, every rule has its exception.
Q.
You affirm that "the end of the Trump Administration is (…) an announcement of the dawn that Brazil will have."
Do you think that influences Bolsonaro's re-election chances so much?
R.
Expands the isolation of Bolsonaro.
And now he is totally without support in an interdependent world.
An isolated government has many difficulties in finding solutions for problems that transcend borders such as the environment or the pandemic.
When you go with a government that prides itself on isolation, it makes it difficult to get vaccines, as we see now.
Q.
The end of the coronavirus pay is another serious problem.
Now all the pressure is going to fall on the states and municipalities.
How are you going to deal with it?
R.
It is a very deep problem.
It has a dimension for beneficiary families, but the negative social effects go beyond that.
They will be excluded from the consumer market and this has an impact on job creation.
It is a monumental mistake to end emergency relief.
If it was created to mitigate the effects of the pandemic and is still as alive as it is, there is no reason to extinguish it.
I believe that fiscal responsibility cannot be separated from social responsibility.
The right thing to do is to extend it until the middle of this year, when I think we will see the effects of vaccination.
I do not have a Central Bank, I do not issue currency, nor can I incur debt, I try to adopt damage containment measures as an aid for those who collect solid waste, 305,000 basic baskets for families since April and a public works program of 559 million reais (100 million dollars) and I am going to send a check for 600 reais (one-time payment) so that families can buy products.
Q.
As president of the consortium of governors of the legal Amazon, do you fear that Biden will put commercial pressure for Brazil to change its environmental policy?
A.
It is a risk.
We have a fair global concern, but also (agricultural) competitors who may want to take advantage and a country without alliances.
And that makes up a very fragile scenario.
In the international sphere, more important than punishing Brazil is to strengthen the efforts of those who want to protect the Amazon, for example, the consortium of governors of the Amazon, which has a different position from that of the federal government.
Everyone agrees that the idea that there is no law or control in the Amazon is negative for Brazil.
The large producers of Mato Grosso know that the risk of international sanctions is serious.
Biden spoke of a fund of 20,000 million dollars.
I believe that it is possible to build a great alliance involving even sectors of the federal government.
The United States and international companies could help make a fund for payment of environmental services viable because that protects the environment.
Because the population living in the Amazon has to find a way to support themselves economically and environmental services are.
That will enable alternative practices that allow people to live without devastating the jungle.
Q.
Will it be possible to forge a broad opposition front against Bolsonaro for the 2022 presidential elections?
R.
I think that in a first round we will have two or more candidates, to the left and to the center right.
It is interesting the broad front that has been created for the presidency of the Chamber of Deputies around Baleia (Rossi), who is of the center-right, but which practically all the left supports.
It indicates that we are in a different moment.
Two years ago only we on the left supported Rodrigo Maia.
And we were highly criticized.
History shows that we were right because Maia was very important in containing Bolsonaro's coup and dictatorial intentions.
So even if you don't have a wide join in the first round, in the second it is possible.
It is an important qualitative change for everyone because Brazil, Amazonia, cannot endure four more years of Bolsonaro.
Q.
What is a communist about you?
R.
It is clear that the concept is not the same as the XIX.
I often say in the PCdoB that the symbol of the hammer and sickle no longer expresses the world of work.
The key is how you deal with inequality.
I believe that inequality must be compensated but without practicing that uniform egalitarianism that is a counterutopia.
I consider myself on the left because I am a militant against social injustices.
I believe that the role of the State and of public policies is irreplaceable to correct the market trend of concentration of wealth in the hands of a few.
It is not eliminating the market.
And that is another important distinction in our thinking with respect to the classical left.