Moreno Bonilla: "A stage is opening for dialogue with the PSOE"

In the office of Juan Manuel Moreno Bonilla (Barcelona, ​​51 years old) in the San Telmo Palace, photographs of him with Barack Obama, with Adolfo Suárez and with Pablo Casado, the recently ousted leader of his party, are displayed.

The president of Andalusia has played a key role in the moments prior to Casado's departure, and assures that he mediated to ensure that he could say goodbye at the April congress, because a few wanted to collect his head first.

In permanent contact with Alberto Núñez Feijóo, with whom he has sponsored the new stage of the PP, Moreno anticipates changes in the relationship between the conservatives and the PSOE, while opening the door of their governments to Vox if they change their attitude.

Through the windows of San Telmo the beeps of a protest by farmers who ask for measures against the drought are filtered.

Ask.

How have you lived these weeks of anxiety in the Popular Party?

Answer

.

He has been a member of the PP for 30 years and has never lived through such a dramatic, sad and hard experience as the one of the last few weeks.

P.

The barons have played a fundamental role in this crisis.

How did you decide that the end of Casado had come?

R.

First, there has never been a predisposition for the end of a stage that was legitimate and with a president that I have a lot of appreciation for.

But there was a jolt like we had never seen before.

There was a break with the bases by the national leadership.

There was a break with society, because in the street, people stopped you and said: “What are you doing?

I will never vote for you again!”

And there was a media break, with a series of media that are a reference within the center right.

That's where many tell us: "Hey, you have to act."

P.

When did you know that the situation was untenable and Casado had to leave?

R.

Without a doubt, with the concentrations in front of the headquarters of Genoa.

That was a

to everyone.

Q.

What was the agreement between the barons?

How did you convince Feijóo to take the step forward?

R.

It was all so sudden that at no time did Alberto plan to take that step.

Psychologically, he had already passed the stage of being able to lead the party after the 2018 [PP] congress. There was a moment when I told him: “Hey, Alberto, you are the solution.

It is no longer a question of whether you want to or not, but rather that the party needs you and, what is more, Spain needs you, because Spain needs a clear and viable alternative, which is the PP”.

And then, at the meeting of the barons, there was unanimous agreement that an extraordinary and urgent congress had to be convened.

Pablo informed us that he was not going to attend that congress.

I have always tried to ensure that this complicated situation does not get worse with the figure of Pablo Casado.

A president enters a congress and has to leave in a congress, it is worthy, it is correct.

Teodoro was wrong in his desire to control the territorial structures

Q.

Many in the party thought that Casado had to resign immediately.

R.

Yes, there were voices among the regional presidents and among different sectors that considered that the solution had to be immediate.

I did not agree and to the extent that I could I have tried to assert common sense.

P.

Why would you say that Casado falls as the leader of the PP?

R.

There is not a single cause, if not, a national leadership does not fall in such a short time.

There are some.

The conflict with Madrid, hatched since May, began to show a crudeness never expected.

But it comes from two years ago.

In Pablo Casado's environment they do not understand that this party is an autonomist party.

They were sometimes about to continue dividing between those who were on one side and the other.

The feeling was one of guardianship and not of autonomy.

Q.

When you talk about Casado's environment, you are referring to Teodoro García Egea.

Has García Egea been the problem?

R.

Teodoro is a very intelligent person, with people skills, but perhaps he has not been able to interpret what our party was.

And there has been an eagerness to control the territorial structures and impose the candidates.

This party is not Vox, this party is not a single command party.

P.

It seems that the confrontation with Ayuso was the trigger, but that Casado and Teodoro García Egea have been settled accounts for previous issues.

R.

The feeling we all have is like that.

The Ayuso thing broke the camel's back, the game imploded, but those things would never have happened without underlying discomfort.

I have been very surprised that provincial and regional presidents who have come from the hand of the national leadership have been very critical of this leadership.

Q.

Why did those like-minded leaders turn?

It was amazing.

R.

I have been told cases of presidents who have waited six months to speak with one of the top leaders of the party.

Or decisions were made behind his back.

In the case of Seville, a congress was convened with its back to the regional leadership.

That can not be allowed.

One cannot be a

.

Those kinds of things are what greatly undermined the confidence of the territorial structures in the national leadership.

P.

_

Which one

Was Casado's main mistake?

Accuse Isabel Díaz Ayuso of unexemplary practices, because she is an electoral asset of the PP?

Seek exemplarity within the PP, as he argued?

R.

I think that more than mistakes, there is a host of circumstances that are clearly hostile to him.

First, being a leader in the opposition is very difficult.

But such a direct and frontal confrontation [with Ayuso] generated enormous discomfort for a part of the party that already came with unhealed scars from the 2018 congress. When you are healing from an illness, and you see that another illness is going to come even more severe, a reaction is provoked.

Let's go to a more focused PP

Q.

And was that confrontation between Casado and Ayuso due to jealousy, a clash of power...?

R.

I am not going to make any value judgment, because I do not live in Madrid, I was not in the national leadership and I do not know the ins and outs.

What I do know is what I saw.

And what I saw was a towering matchup.

P.

Are you sure that there is nothing illegal in the collections of the brother of Díaz Ayuso from the Community of Madrid?

R.

I do not have any information other than what has appeared in the media and therefore, if there is anything, it will be the justice that has to rule.

I personally believe in the honorability of Ayuso.

If there were any type of irregularities, it must be the justice that clarifies it.

Q.

Hasn't the PP rushed to close the file?

Because the Prosecutor's Office could say that there are irregularities.

A.

As far as I know, the national directorate opened the file because there was supposedly no information;

once it was delivered, it was closed.

P.

Have we witnessed a demolition operation of Casado and his address?

Pablo Montesinos expressed it in those terms.

R.

It is the opinion of Montesinos, who is honored to have maintained an unwavering loyalty to Casado's project.

I do not agree.

I'm at a meal on Thursday and the bomb goes off, and I have to leave because of the number of calls I get.

These are supervening events, at least in the peripheral part of the PP.

Q.

Has the PP misbehaved with Casado?

He complained about it.

A.

Political machines are not little sisters of charity.

They are cruel.

It is true that on the part of some sectors there has been an excessively offensive or harsh position against Pablo.

It was not necessary.

P.

Ayuso demands expulsion from the party of those who have participated in a "campaign" against her.

Are you in favor of expulsions?

R.

Spying on a colleague is something very serious, because it also violates the Penal Code.

If it is shown that any leader or militant has participated in actions that are not legal, they will obviously have to assume their responsibility.

Each autonomous president has to make his pacts, you cannot drive from Madrid

P.

What role can Casado have in the future of the PP?

Should you continue as a deputy?

R.

_

That is a very personal decision.

Pablo is a politician of great height and capacity.

When you are president, going to the second or third level is already more complicated.

But what about politics?

I think so.

P.

And Teodoro García Egea, can he also have an important role in the new stage?

R.

That will depend on Feijóo, but right now it seems difficult.

P.

What does Feijóo have that Moreno Bonilla does not have to preside over the PP?

R.

He has experience and four absolute majorities behind him.

I have an election just around the corner, I don't have any bullet in electoral terms as important as the one he has.

So there is a very big difference.

He is our dean.

The president of the Junta de Andalucía, Juanma Moreno Bonilla at the Palacio de San Telmo on Friday. PACO PUENTES (EL PAÍS)

P.

What PP will illuminate the April congress?

One very different from this last stage?

R.

The parties are different because the leaders make their mark.

For now, they are two different political generations.

I think we are moving towards a more focused party, with a special sensitivity in the territorial sphere.

Q.

And with a strategic twist?

R.

That is an interview that you have to do with Feijóo.

P.

But you will be a mainstay of the new stage.

R.

I believe that spaces for dialogue with the PSOE are going to be opened.

But two don't talk if one doesn't want to.

The PSOE and the arrogance of Sánchez have prevented many times from reaching an agreement.

I hope that sanchismo is able to interpret this new political moment and sit down at the table to resolve state affairs, which are not few.

I think Casado will be able to continue in politics

Q.

And what can there be a dialogue about?

Is this an offer from the Popular Party?

R.

On affairs of state.

One of them is the situation in Spain in the face of the war we have in Europe.

Regional financing, improve the territorial structure of the country.

Judicial issues.

The voice of the party will be willing to dialogue.

Reach agreements?

If Sánchez continues to be kidnapped by Podemos, it is very difficult.

It will depend on Sánchez.

Q.

Is the PP going to offer the PSOE state pacts?

How is it going to materialize?

R.

That has to be decided by Alberto.

But a stage for dialogue opens.

Dialogue is not a blank check.

P.

Is the renewal of the General Council of the Judiciary going to be addressed?

R.

It could be without a doubt within the issues that need to be talked about.

P.

The last condition that Casado demanded was to change the method of electing the Council, will they maintain this demand?

R.

We have always wanted the judges to choose the judges.

I think there is room for intermediate positions.

Maybe it doesn't have to be exactly what Mr. Sánchez wants, nor exactly what we want.

That is the negotiation.

And somewhere in between there is a hybrid formula.

P.

Do you think that Feijóo will have rivals in the PP congress?

R.

I do not see a candidacy with weight.

Q.

Should the PP agree on governments with Vox, or in any case?

R.

This is a very complex situation that requires serious analysis.

PP and Vox are different.

There are issues where the position is close: in the territorial integrity of Spain, in lowering taxes, in the reform of the productive system.

Other things, on the other hand, push us away.

The fight against climate change, against sexist violence, autonomous Spain.

It will depend on Vox's attitude.

Whether it wants to go from being a party that points out problems to being a party that manages problems.

To make that leap, he has to understand that he governs for everyone, not for a few.

You have to practice pragmatism in management.

Is Vox ready?

They have to decide.

And I believe that each autonomous president has to make his pacts.

You can't pilot that from Madrid.

Another important variable: people.

P.

So, if Vox took that leap in management, would you have no problem governing with them?

R.

Every president has to see it.

I want to rule alone.

P.

And if you had to agree with Vox, what would your red lines be?

A.

Respect for our Statute of Autonomy is a red line.

That means the self-government of Andalusia, our symbols, our collective identity.

I do not see the Andalusian elections in May or June.

I see them in the fall

P.

In Castilla y León, is it preferable to repeat elections or govern with Vox?

R.

The social majority of Castilla y León is not for elections.

You have to delegate to Alfonso [Fernández Mañueco].

Make that decision.

Q.

You have always talked about two dates for the Andalusian elections: June and October.

R.

In the fall four years would have passed, three Budgets... That balance is positive.

I don't see elections in May or June.

Q.

So you see them more in October, in the fall.

A.

In the fall.

P.

Several directors of Ciudadanos, your partner, have expressed their intention to continue if you form a new Government.

Do you consider integrating them or Juan Marín if he can govern?

R.

I would like to integrate Cs, as a formation it is very touched.

But we will have to assess it at the time, see what Cs wants and what we also want.

I don't rule out anything.

P.

How do you see the landing of Macarena Olona in Andalusia?

R.

It is a person that I practically do not know.

I am observing that she is interested in being the candidate for the presidency of the Junta de Andalucía.

I wish you luck and respect.

P.

You have reached many agreements with Vox, including the Budgets.

With Olona would it be just as simple?

A.

I don't know, because I don't have the pleasure of meeting her.

What I do know is that when Vox has been useful in Andalusia, things have gone reasonably well for it.

But now, in political and parliamentary terms they have become useless and a certain divorce has taken place.

I have been in the minority for eight months and listening to Vox and PSOE talk about elections.

P.

The protests of the toilets are perhaps what is most eroding the image of your Government.

Has the Board got something wrong with the collapse of primary care in this latest wave?

R.

Surely we have made mistakes.

But everyone has to understand that the current circumstances are exceptional.

This is a general problem.

I think the left has made a mistake allowing itself to be carried away by an electoral desire to politicize a concern, which exists and I recognize it.

If the PSOE had abstained in the Budget, we would have had 1,100 million euros for health.

P.

What should be the role of Spain in the war in Ukraine?

R.

That of a serious ally of NATO and the European Union.

This means that it has to act with the same determination as the Atlantic Alliance and the leading countries of the European Union.

We are the fourth largest economy in Europe and we cannot play a peripheral role.

We cannot lurch, as has happened with the delivery of offensive weapons directly by Spain.

We have to have a leading role in a war that we feel as our own.

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