Security expert explains Putin's fear strategy at "Lanz": "The bomb is not the weapon"

Created: 03/24/2022, 05:15

Security expert Florence Gaub as a guest on "Markus Lanz" (ZDF).

© Markus Hertrich/ZDF

SPD politician Martin Schulz is struggling for sovereignty in the "Markus Lanz" debate on the Ukraine war because the taunts of a journalist drive him nuts. 

Hamburg – In "Markus Lanz" on Tuesday evening, the military expert Florence Gaub impressively describes the "punishment strategy" at the beginning of the program that Russia's President Vladimir Putin* uses in the Ukraine conflict* in the destruction of the Ukrainian city of Mariupol.

However, as the Americans demonstrated in Vietnam or the Soviet Union in Afghanistan, this tactic is not effective.

As a rule, the will of the population cannot be broken; on the contrary, the punishment leads to further resentment.

Talkmaster Markus Lanz says in a serious voice: "I mean there are body bags in the streets and obviously people have problems burying people."

Gaub explains that Russia is taking the Ukrainian population hostage to put pressure on the government.

Every city is of military value, meanwhile it's about "achieving something" for Russia.

Putin assumed rapid military success, instead the war has dragged on for a month.

Host Lanz sees the fact that the Russian President punished secret service employees because they had misinformed him about the situation as a signal that “nothing is going according to plan at all” in Russia.

Gaub shares this assessment.

All information about what is happening in Ukraine can also be found in our live ticker on the Ukraine war.

Ukraine war with "Markus Lanz" - military expert Gaub: "I want to take away the fear of the people"

“War is logistics and emotion.

The war is also taking place in all of our heads,” says Gaub and calls for verbal disarmament, such as the flippant talk of a third world war.

"It scares us.

The weapon is not the bomb, but the fear of the bomb is the weapon," says Gaub.

And those who are afraid make bad decisions.

She has made it her mission to take away people's fears, also with a view to the use of nuclear weapons.

She "really doesn't want to downplay it," but people continued to live in Hiroshima after the detonation.

"I really want to take away people's fear that the world is about to end and we're all going to die in a huge nuclear war.

That won't happen," says Gaub.

At her last words, the politician Martin Schulz (SPD) frowned.

Gaub's recommendation not to watch the news for a day to get rid of the fear, he acknowledges with a sober: "Impossible."

Refugees from Ukraine in Berlin – Senator for Social Affairs Kipping on “Markus Lanz”: “This is just the beginning”

The politician Katja Kipping (Linke*), who has been Berlin's Social Senator for three months, describes the consequences of the war in the capital.

Putin opened his war of aggression on a Thursday, on Friday they decided to adjust the Berlin structures to the Ukraine refugees and the first ones were there on Saturday.

Accordingly, there was no lead time, and tens of thousands arrived quickly at Berlin Central Station every day.

Berlin has currently been able to accommodate around 20,000 people: “That is roughly twice what we would have in total in terms of refugee accommodation.

And we all know that this is just the beginning.”

What would Martin Schulz do in the current situation, asks host Lanz in the direction of the Social Democrat, who then has to laugh.

The cities and municipalities would have to bear the main burden of the refugees, so they would have to be provided with sufficient money, with Schulz showing confidence: "It will definitely work." The accusation of the journalist Robin Alexander, Interior Minister Nancy Faeser (SPD) has the situation underestimated, Schulz rejects, as well as a criticism of Chancellor Olaf Scholz (SPD), who, according to Alexander, does not comment sufficiently on the conflict in public.

The Chancellor is confronted with a "fundamental change in international politics" through which he must lead the country, explains Scholz and says: "I think he did a great job."

"Markus Lanz" - these were his guests on March 22nd:

• Katja Kipping (left)

  – politician

• Martin Schulz (SPD)

  – politician

• Florence Gaub

  - Security Expert

• Robin Alexander

  – Journalist

Moderator Lanz finds the criticism that Olaf Scholz would duck away justified, for example because the Chancellor did not react directly to the speech by Volodymyr Zelenskyj* in the German Bundestag and there was no debate afterwards.

Schulz initially says that although he was not there, he had experienced similar situations himself.

“Perhaps we should have taken a break, I think so,” he admits, but also expresses his “understanding for the heads of government, who, in close international coordination, have to weigh every word in order to avoid a dangerous escalation of this conflict “.

Zelenskyj is currently speaking in many parliaments, says Alexander.

"Those were the great moments of these parliaments," interjects Lanz.

In his speech, Zelenskyi addressed things "that really concern our country," says Alexander.

The fact that Parliament did not respond to this is "incredibly embarrassing".

Schulz jiggled his crossed leg uneasily during Alexander's remarks and shrugged his shoulders in agreement before saying, visibly agitated: "I myself once had the honor of chairing such a parliament.

So yes, okay.

I think the Bundestag should have let the speech sink in after the speech.”

German dependence on Russia for raw materials – Martin Schulz on “Markus Lanz”: “I underestimated Putin’s brutality”

Schulz also seems agitated when he speaks a little later about former Chancellor Gerhard Schröder* (SPD).

Historically, he made a valuable contribution when he renounced the Americans' illegal war in Iraq, but Schröder's silence on a crime by Russia that violated international law was unacceptable.

Host Lanz then wants to know whether there is a party exclusion in the room.

"Oh nonsense," Schulz dismisses, the committees of the party should deal with that.

Together with other former party leaders, he called on the former chancellor to resign from his posts in Russia "and that's actually what I expect from him.

I'm surprised he doesn't."

Martin Schulz (SPD) as a guest on “Markus Lanz” (ZDF).

© Markus Hertrich/ZDF

The moderator cannot understand that the warning signals from Georgia, Crimea, Syria, "poison murders all over Europe" have been overlooked and wants to see an SPD problem in Germany's energy dependency.

Schulz unravels the conflicts: Russia withdrew in 2008, and in 2014 an attempt was made to keep the conflict under control with the Minsk Agreement.

This was obviously unsuccessful, it is possible that “the analysis was not carried out with sufficient consistency”.

The fact that the Federal Republic of Germany buys Russian raw materials is "a tradition that has grown over decades" and has taken place across party lines.

However, Schulz admits to being among those who "underestimated Putin's brutality".

SPD politician Schulz goes up the hat cord with “Markus Lanz”: “I really find it cheeky”

When Alexander then claimed that Schulz had campaigned against NATO's two percent target in 2017, the chancellor candidate at the time gradually gave out.

First he admits that he would not repeat his statement "Then we would have a Germany armed to the teeth" today.

But because Alexander persists, Schulz goes through the nags: "I won't interrupt you after every half-sentence either!

I really find that cheeky.” Schulz only calmed down a bit when host Lanz intervened and asked for precision.

He makes it clear that he did not campaign against the two percent target, but questioned its practical implementation.

A little later Schulz scolded again, half with Alexander, half with the political opponent: "The Bundeswehr has slimmed down Herr von und zu Gutenberg,

who turned this army into a piggy bank.

And his successor Mr. Jung.

And his successor Frau von der Leyen.

And their successor Mr. de Maizère.

And his successor Mrs. Kramp-Karrenbauer.

All not members of the SPD.”

Kipping, on the other hand, thinks the two percent target was “wrong both then and now”.

She can understand when people change their minds in view of the changed situation, but "just basing armament on a fixed number is not the right conclusion from the whole".

Talkmaster Lanz finds all of this exciting, a whole generation, "as we are sitting here", finally has to admit to a lifelong lie: the principle of 'change through trade' has failed.

Kipping attributes this fact primarily to Russia's president, about whom her party was wrong.

Her impression, however, is that Putin has changed a lot in the last two years and attests him "a new level of unpredictability and willingness to escalate".

"Markus Lanz" - The conclusion of the show

"Markus Lanz" on Tuesday evening focuses on the 27th day of the Ukraine war and its consequences in an intensive debate.

Military expert Florence Gaub describes the situation on the ground before politician Katja Kipping (left) reports on the situation of Ukrainian refugees in Berlin.

Politician Martin Schulz (SPD) makes a series of uncomfortable concessions to journalist Robin Alexander and talk show host Markus Lanz.

However, Alexander in particular is not satisfied with this, he repeatedly teases Schulz, who breaks the thread of patience that has been strained from the beginning.