And Yolanda Díaz's project started.
After months of waiting, thousands of people supported the Second Vice President and Minister of Labor (Fene-A Coruña, 51 years old) last Friday in Madrid at the launch of Sumar, which she presents as an open call to all citizens and not as a simple electoral platform.
Hours before the act, without hiding a certain nervousness, Díaz reflected on the objectives of this initiative, which seeks to revitalize the left, and on the future of the coalition government after days of convulsions due to differences regarding military spending.
Question
.
Why is it necessary to reconfigure the political space of United We Can?
Answer
.
It is not about recovering spaces, but about expanding democracy, making our society livable and turning politics into something useful.
It is about fixing the problems that people have, which are very simple: having a decent job and housing;
being able to pay the electricity bill;
pay taxes fairly, something that does not happen in our country;
have quality public schools and public health;
being able to enjoy the culture...
P.
_
What exactly is Sum?
R.
_
It is not an electoral project, it is a citizen movement in which the leading role will fall precisely on the citizens.
We are going to raise a country project.
I want a beloved country, a better Spain in which we all fit, whatever we think.
The conception that there is of Spain by some voices is very small, very sad.
And I want a Spain like this week, that of Pride, diverse, in which we think differently, that we have a future, that, ultimately, we are happier.
P.
_
Podemos was also born with assemblies in the streets, what would this contribute differently?
R.
It is not the same, Podemos has never been configured as a citizen movement.
Here you will decide the movement, as soon as you take your course and unfurl sails, if you want to be something more.
What it is about is giving prominence to citizens, who are confused, saddened, who do not see a future, who believe that politics is not useful, but rather a problem.
We have to give a voice to those who make our country: economists, public health professionals, construction workers, supermarket cashiers, cleaners... Our country lives looking at the past and we have to draw a new one.
P.
Podemos also advocated overcoming the old political structures.
If you have to reinvent yourself, it is because something has failed.
R.
Podemos is born from the challenge and I start from the construction.
The progressive forces have felt comfortable saying no, opposing, challenging the contrary.
I am launching a citizen movement in which I am going to be one more small piece of a collective gear in which I not only deconstruct the challenge, but also want to build it.
A country in favor, in which we dialogue, listen, talk, synthesize, build bridges, not destroy them.
In the context in which Podemos emerged, it was normal for the challenge to be echoed.
Now it's different.
P.
Avoid the term left, as if it were a ballast.
R.
_
It is no ballast.
I come from where I come from, I am the daughter of workers and I feel very proud.
But I don't like fetishes.
Is raising the minimum wage, defending public health or the social use of algorithms leftist?
What is the left? What is progress? What is the right in today's world?
P.
_
It claims transversality.
R.
_
Absolutely.
I am addressing the social majority, which is all of us.
I don't want corners.
I am a moderate woman in the forms and in the contents.
That country in favor we have to do with many hands, many music, many hearts and many different ways of understanding each other.
As in the exceptional moments of history, what is at stake is democracy.
P.
_
Transversality was one of the reasons for the break between Pablo Iglesias and Íñigo Errejón.
R.
I'm not going to get into breakups.
This is not about dogmas, I identify with the president [Chilean, Gabriel] Boric when he says that he has many doubts.
I have them, I'm human, I think people are like that.
Who has everything very clear and dictates dogmas of faith, great, but surely he is wrong.
P.
That uncertainty about whether she is going to be a candidate cannot weigh down the political project?
R.
I have taken a very important step in my life and I do it with all my heart, knowing very well the challenge I have and from the conviction that it is possible to make Spain better.
I will row in favor as one more and collectively we will do what we want to be.
And if we want to stand for election, we're going to do it together.
I am not afraid, because when you walk with many people, the paths are easier.
The important thing right now is to open a space for thought, for the country we want.
P.
_
In a letter to EL PAÍS, a member of the commons asked them to be more concerned about those who drink beers and not so much about those who drink gin and tonics.
Are they at risk of falling into a certain elitism?
R.
_
I think I am the shining example that I care about the people who need it most.
If not, I wouldn't be wasting myself for nine months to raise the minimum wage by 15 euros.
P.
_
Can we have helped her or hindered her?
R.
I have nothing but gratitude to Podemos and all the political formations, even the smallest, and affection to all their militancies.
P.
And when the time comes to organize your project, will you count on Podemos?
R.
_
I am nobody to do anything.
This is a citizen movement that will do some country design tasks until December or January, with more than 25 groups that are already working.
If, when that process is over, we collectively understand that we have to turn this into an electoral project, I will continue to be one more gear.
Making lists, with stretcher tables, they won't find me.
I have never fought for an electoral list.
It will be done collectively, democratically.
Whoever wants to present himself should present himself and let the citizens vote.
P.
Is it necessary for Podemos and Más País to understand each other again?
R.
What is needed is to broaden democracy and mobilize citizens.
Parties are a very small thing.
If I only had the games, I know the result in advance.
It is much more ambitious.
P.
Without parties it is difficult to make an electoral project.
R.
The parties are essential in democracy, because they are the channel we have to present ourselves to the elections.
They have to be, but they don't have to be.
What we need right now is to mobilize citizens and take charge of their country.
Why does the CIS tell us, month after month, that there is a huge gap between citizenship and politics?
something is going wrong
P.
_
So that reconciliation is not essential.
R.
_
We already understand each other.
I work every day with all the parties.
I am the woman who talks the most with all the parties in the world.
Yolanda Díaz, during the interview. Jaime Villanueva
Q.
How are your relations with the rest of the UP ministers?
R.
I have, beyond personal sympathies, a magnificent relationship with all my space and I think with all Spanish politics.
Q
With churches too?
A.
Also.
I have nothing but affection and gratitude for Pablo Iglesias, I am his friend, which does not mean that we think the same.
He has changed the politics of this country, he has done unimaginable things and I respect him a lot.
He has taken a step back and that's it.
P.
_
What don't they think alike?
R.
This is an anthology, for a long time.
I remember old discussions about his concept of homeland.
I am Galician and I think it is very difficult to build that concept in a diverse, complicated country.
Or about his conception of power.
We have positions, not from now, but from behind, very different.
I come from dialogue, he from a different conception.
P.
Sometimes, with the war in Ukraine, for example, it has seemed that the UP ministers each went separately.
R
.
Yes, it is totally true.
The ministers have parties and they have to have their own spaces.
The war has placed the whole world in a very complex position, in which no solution is easy.
I am not clear at all what is correct.
It is clear to me that there is an absolutely illegitimate invasion and that the Ukrainian people have decided on self-defense.
The rest of the paradigms are in dispute.
I would have liked to discuss NATO's strategic concept at this Madrid summit.
Is conceiving migrations as a hybrid threat correct in a democratic society in the 21st century?
Or is the look towards human rights not key?
Is it debatable to understand the climatic emergency in a comprehensive way and not only with a security interest?
Is it debatable that Europe lacks an autonomous security model?
If Trump wins in 2024, with the step we have taken, what will happen?
In the dispute between democracies and autocracies, do we share the values of Erdogan [Recep Tayyip, Turkish president]?
It would be worth pause and calm to discuss all this.
P.
_
Can the discussion about the increase in military spending break the government?
R.
_
Nothing is going to break the Government, because there is no alternative to the progressive coalition.
Of course, we have a difference that we should also address slowly.
Q.
And how?
R
.
With much imagination, I have negotiated worse things, believe me.
The Budget is a global conception, what worries me is what Budget we are going to have in order to be able to compensate for the impact of inflation on the social majorities.
And this is the central discussion, the defense budget is a small part.
We have to talk about public revenues, and I do not agree that a tax reform is not carried out, I think it is more necessary than ever, because at this moment those who have the most must contribute.
The question is, who is going to pay for this crisis?
The usual ones or the big corporations that have absolutely extraordinary profits?
Large corporations listed on the Stock Exchange have had 64,021 million euros in profits.
They are historical, they have to contribute more at this time.
The usual crisis cannot be paid for and we cannot get out of it with austerity.
This is the substantive debate on the Budget, not on Defense.
P.
Is there a risk then that with this Government the usual people will pay for it?
A.
Not at all.
I work daily so that it is not like that.
P.
But you are not the president, nor the majority party.
R.
We have to negotiate and we are doing it.
We have prohibited dismissal in a context of crisis with two causes, we have limited the rise in rents to 2%, given a check for rents below 14,000 euros of 200 euros, raised the minimum wage and we will raise it again, we are going to to make —and it has cost us well from UP— a tax that is levied on the large electricity companies... We are in the Government to do this, to improve people's lives.
P.
_
On the military budget, are you going to have a conversation with the president?
Do you oppose any increase?
R.
Do you think it is my style to oppose me like this, the no for the no?
No, we are going to have a calm, serene debate, but one that is going to address the whole of the Budget.
P.
What measures has the Government taken with which you do not agree?
R.
Some yes, some yes... [stops to think for a while] You can't agree on everything.
Some measure in economic matters or some that is not taken.
In a country that has a huge risk of oligopolistic concentration in two key sectors, finance and energy, I would have liked us to act more.
P.
The Government was on the edge of the precipice with the discussion about the latest measures.
You got up from the table if the check to the most needy families was not approved.
R.
I never get up from a table.
My political culture prevents me.
Never.
P.
But it was an inalienable requirement.
A.
It is the opposite party that works with red lines.
I know that this is what can never be done in a negotiation.
P.
Was the Government in danger?
R.
_
Never.
The worst moments of danger had to do with a different interpretation of the labor reform.
Perhaps the precipice was there, the Government experienced difficult times, but fortunately we overcame it.
P.
Why do people not value the government's measures?
R.
This is a problem of the Government, it is not of the people.
We are not doing it right and it is not a communication problem.
Q.
And what is the problem?
R.
_
This Government has done things that had never been done before, but managing is not enough.
I always say that this government lacks soul.
And sometimes we lack happy measures.
If it takes us nine months to advance the minimum wage, when it arrives, the measure is still not happy.
If it takes us so long to move forward...
P.
_
Do you not believe in those dark powers that the president and Iglesias speak of?
A
Since Spartacus there are hidden powers.
And by the way, they are highly visible.
I, if you want, I put names and surnames.
I am daily between the powers...
Q.
Put them on.
R.
_
The financiers, the energy... Do you think that the energy powers like a minister who is saying every day that they want them to pay taxes?
I'm sure not, but since Spartacus it has been like this.
If the question is, are they pushing hard?
They push hard, yes.
P.
_
What reflection do you deserve the audios in which Commissioner Villarejo and Dolores de Cospedal plot actions against Podemos?
R.
The PP has to be held accountable for what it has done to a democratic political formation and what it has done to its leaders.
The destruction that Pablo Iglesias and his family have suffered is never known in our country, nor do I dare say in the world.
Therefore, I believe that Mr. Feijóo has to purge political responsibilities for the sake of democracy in our country.
It is not enough to say, as Mr. Feijóo has told us, “this was many years ago”.
Mr. Feijóo is the maximum leader of the PP, which has used the instances paid with public resources of the Spanish men and women to bring down a political adversary.
And this is very serious in a democracy.
P.
_
The PSOE loses votes to the PP.
Are you afraid Sánchez will react with a right turn?
R.
_
I'm not going to speculate on the president's views.
What I have is an opinion, very clear.
We have to have a Government prepared in this context to fix the problems of the citizens, and it seems to me that in the other positions - and I am not talking about acronyms, I am talking about measures - if the Government of Spain returns to austerity, it will once again stop the economy and once again does not take decisive measures in terms of public income, in terms of social advances, I humbly believe that we are going to make a mistake.
P.
_
But she has not perceived any symptoms.
R.
I am not one to give an opinion based on perceptions.
I don't like it at all, I'm quite cold there.
I move by proposals.
P.
_
What if the Government falls for all that it is saying?
A.
It's that I'm not going to put myself into the future, because in a democracy, when you don't have an absolute majority, you have to negotiate.
P.
Has the president explained his agreements with Morocco?
A.
No.
Q.
And you haven't asked him for explanations?
R.
_
I have spoken with the Minister [of Foreign Affairs, José Manuel] Albares.
This conversation should not only be with us, but also with the opposition.
Because if our country, in a majority way, thinks that this position is not correct, we have to do something.
State policy is also debatable.
I don't do state politics?
Isn't the labor reform that changes people's lives a State policy?
Or is it only the Ministry of Defense?
Democracy consists of talking to everyone, and I do not share many things with Mr. Feijóo, but he deserves that the president explain to him what Spain is doing.
P.
Has the position of the socialists bothered you a lot after the tragedy of the fence?
R.
Yes, it has hurt me a lot.
You don't play with human rights.
Q.
Why do you think the Government is doing this?
A.
I don't understand.
P.
_
Do you condemn the actions of the Moroccan police?
A.
What I am saying is that human rights must be respected.
And not only do I say it, international organizations say it.
P.
_
Should we expect a rebound in unemployment around the summer?
R.
I don't know, but we are following it with great intensity and, as we always do, with great caution.
P.
Feijóo has spoken that a deep economic crisis is coming.
R.
Feijóo is representing the best of the PP, which is the destruction of the country.
That Spain falls, that we will raise it up.
That's Feijoo.
In Spain they still don't know him well.
I do know him.
And the catastrophic vision that he is giving, in addition to being irresponsible, is unreal.
P.
_
Is there something that frustrated you that you couldn't do in her apartment?
R.
Many things, I have suffered enough.
I will tell when I stop being a minister.
It has cost me a lot to get everything out, from the first measure, which was the repeal of dismissal for absenteeism.
I have had to explain so many things... In the first increase in the minimum wage, 50 euros, I was told by the Government that I was destroying jobs.
It has cost us all a lot, my team and me.
Díaz, promoter of the Sumar platform, at the ministry's headquarters in Madrid.
Jaime Villanueva
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