In an interview he gave almost 20 years ago, Avishai Cohen gave the impression of an artist just waiting to devour the world. The dreams of conquering New York, which he had dreamed from the moment he arrived in Boston – where he began his studies at the age of 18 at the Berklee School of Music – merged with descriptions of the loss of Israeli influence on him and his work. Together, they painted a picture of a musician who understood that in order to truly be great, you have to see the whole world as a stage, and one that you go up and play on. "I wasn't interested in studying," he said at the time, "I wanted to go out by 8 a.m., walk around, get on stage in jams. This life suited me."
Indeed, at the age of 20 he moved to a city where success is said to mean promise everywhere else, living from jam to jam and concert to concert. He signed with prestigious labels, formed ensembles, conquered peaks and became a rockstar on the global jazz scene. A trumpet hero, if you will, internationally renowned and driven to exhale as much life as possible in the fairy. Then, sometime at the age of 42, he decided to settle down. He set up a studio on Allenby, settled in Tel Aviv and leaned back. The man who stuck the trumpet decided, after more than 20 years of racing, 15 of them in the United States, to take a stake. And he did, but not before living in India for a few years.
Of all the places to move to from New York, you chose to move to Goa for four years. Radical upheaval.
"Exactly. Because the opposite is exactly what we needed. New York was enough for us. The persecution, the career, on and on and on. And in India it's the opposite, less and less. It was exactly what was needed. I wouldn't move from New York to London. The country was too much for me already, the same vibe of persecution. I wanted to get out of the chase. It all started in 2008. My wife had visited India before this. She took us to a village in Goa and we fell in love with it. Even then, it burned into my mind and I said to myself, 'If one day I get out of this rat race, then there's a place where you can get out of everything and live cheaply.' The people, the simplicity.
"We returned to Israel later because I didn't want my children to grow up in New York, but I wasn't willing to settle in Israel. I was still face out then. I was afraid that all the effort and work of the years in America would go down the drain and I would just find some work here, start teaching and enter the routine in Palestine of giving up the dream a little. So I was scared of it and I said to myself, 'I'll get out of here.' Then we went there and lived in India for four years, before coming back here."
It is necessary to ask you about something significant that led to this choice, a defining moment.
"I can say that during my marriage my ex-wife would always tell me, 'You have to stop,' and I didn't understand what she was talking about. I think it wasn't the right time either, because things weren't sitting ready to stop. Because to stop then would mean to give up - and what? Don't hire Booking Agent? Don't go to play? It was like giving up the dream a bit. So India, for example, was a kind of stop.
"I was looking to continue creating without compromising. To know that uncompromising is the secret to success, but in a way that allows uncompromising in life as well. Like someone running a company and saying, 'Wait, I have a thriving girlfriend, but I come home at 11 o'clock every day and don't see my kids.' So is it a success or not a success? This year I told my agent, after three years of COVID-<> and a complete halt, 'Now I want to stop,' but in a different way. Now I want to be home. And the difference in being at home by choice is huge. So in the next few years, I know I'm here."
Invested and going to demonstrations
Now, as mentioned, it is here. The marriage has since ended, and he is in a new relationship. When he's not trumpeting, he's a full-time father of 16.5- and 13-year-old children. "My daughter received her first order. It's crazy. Soon she also starts driving," he says. He continues to perform abroad, but he is perhaps more present here than ever. Emotionally invested, makes sure to go to demonstrations every Saturday night and upload protest content to Instagram. An interesting time he chose to be here. A time full of restlessness and almost underground bubbling of passions.
"I enjoy living here, and the word 'enjoying,' of course at a time like this, can be read harshly. Because what is 'enjoying'? It's a challenging and very difficult time here, but I'm glad I can be here now and be part of the protest. I'm there every Shabbat, I'm working, I'm bringing things up. I'm not a network person too much, but I do make sure to document from the demonstrations. I'm not a Facebook discussion person, but to anyone who follows me, my views are clear. I'm happy to be here when it happens, because when you're abroad and such essential things happen, it's hard to see them and worry from afar.
"I run away from the fences as much as I can. Regarding this year's festival, I don't want to define a central theme either. I want to allow everyone to just play the music and ask: Does it touch you or doesn't it touch you? It starts and ends with that."
"I'm present every week with my brother, even though we're always on other sides of Kaplan. Almost every week we send each other a picture from the other side. I hosted lectures by jurists here in the studio, I try to be as active as I can. But I enjoy living here despite the challenging times and despite the difficulty, division, violence and everything that happens in politics. Abroad, politicians, and this is very noticeable, are preoccupied only with themselves."
To complicate matters, the BDS question has already become an obligatory stage in every interview with an international artist who comes here or an Israeli who performs abroad.
"They approached me more than once or twice to cancel shows. ' Cancel your show at such-and-such a place, because there is government support there.' I don't even have a super-cohesive opinion against the idea of a boycott, because I think boycotts ultimately work. Here, too, here is what happened now with Omer Bar-Lev, who entered the board of directors of Angel Bakeries and the boycott of religious people, which caused him to apologize (for his participation in the demonstration in Bnei Brak against the legal reform). I'm just not sure about such an artistic boycott. I don't think a boycott is the worst thing in the world, but there's a lot of value in coming and speaking to the audience.
"On the other hand, in South Africa it did work. I don't support BDS, I don't work with them, and when they turn to me, I say, 'I have my opinions.' They turn to me knowing which side I am on. They read my interview in Il Mundo and said, 'Would you consider?' And I say – my considerations are different because this is a complicated issue, the very fact that BDS is directed at Israel. Because what, are we the only problematic place? Why does Roger Waters continue to perform in the United States, a country that has messed up the world a thousandfold? Don't you criticize the British government that destroyed the world, or the Dutch royal family? So what is this harassment only of Israel? It's a bit hypocritical. Boycotts can also be made in a thousand other places. And if you're already at it, then let's not perform anywhere."
"Why does Roger Waters keep performing in the United States, a country that messes the world a thousand times over? What is this harassment only for Israel? Boycotts can also be made in a thousand other places. And if you're already at it, then let's not perform anywhere."
Have you experienced demonstrations outside of your shows?
"It's spared jazz festivals, because we're a relatively small place. It's happened, I've seen small demonstrations, but I think they're targeting things on a larger scale. I have never downplayed my Israeliness, but I don't come to represent anyone, only myself. And I'm not afraid to put my opinions out. Go to my Instagram and see the demonstrations."
There are those who come to demonstrate with musical instruments. Don't you come to a demonstration with a trumpet, by chance?
"I come with a flag. By the way, people from around the world don't understand from the outside why I put a post on Instagram showing me with an Israeli flag. They don't understand it and respond, 'How come it?' There are all kinds of reactions. Okay, not everyone can understand."
Puzzle component of styles
When he's not playing or protesting, Cohen is in his ninth year as artistic director of the Jerusalem International Jazz Festival (June 29-27 at the Israel Museum), a position he has held since the first year of the Israel Festival event. It's a non-administrative gig, he stresses, that allows it to "fly." Maintain the same format he lives in and put together a puzzle of styles and subgenres within the broad modern definition of jazz.
Like sandwiches for children, Avishai is a chef who prepares a salad of the warm, good and interesting names in the scene in which he flourished. It brings together American Dave Douglas, Italian trio Oliphantre, German pianist Julia Holsman and Bedouin players from the Sahara. Here is a salute to the Beat Generation poets, where a Yemenite hafla meets a Brazilian samba. Among the bands from Mali and New York, he also plays with one of his bands, Big Vicious and hosts singer Esther Rada.
Cohen (center) with one of his bands, Big Vicious They will play together at the festival, photo: Ben Palhov
This whole celebration, and especially the attention it creates, raises a discussion about how Israel has become a kind of "jazz nation," which both attracts and produces prominent artists in the field. One look at Cohen, adorned with tattoos and jewelry, may explain why this is so: simply after years of being considered elitist or a unique niche, jazz has become cool in recent years. He, by the way, is not sure about it at all.
Have we reached a point in time where jazz is no longer just for connoisseurs?
"I'm wondering about that and the whole 'cool' thing, and I'm not sure. If you appeal to the younger generation, do you think that more young people listen to jazz today than they used to?"
It can also be linked to the era of genre fluidity - all styles are mixed up anyway, so the ear is more hooked.
"As jazz continues to evolve, bigger combinations are made. It's out of the box. There's jazz in electronic music and jazz in hip-hop. Say listen to Kendrick Lamar, there's a lot of jazz influences there. But within the jazz world itself and the other influences on jazz today, I'm not sure it touches young people. You won't hear young people listening to a jazz quartet now, maybe I'm wrong. Because if you go to jazz festivals you'll suddenly see Frank Ocean or Drake, those are the headliners, the main names. So I wonder about that statement, and whether it's really true. So genres are blurring, and I welcome that. But I mostly run away from the fences as much as I can. As for this year's festival, I don't want to define a theme, a central theme. I want to allow everyone to just play the music and ask: Does it touch you or doesn't it touch you? It starts and ends with that."
You've been playing on the world stage for years. Still, when Static and Ben-El try to succeed abroad, and fail, it has a lot of resonance.
"Look, it's a more limited field, I make instrumental music. Forget the word jazz even, it appeals to a smaller audience. It's not the general public, and I like it too. I'm known to a certain audience. So I'm signed to ECM, one of the most prestigious labels in the jazz world, I work with one of the most important producers, who works with Pat Metheny and Keith Jarrett, and my number of plays on Spotify when I release a record is the same as Shlomo Artzi's, 300,<> a month. So as we said at the beginning - this is success. Living here, making my music and making a decent living from it. I keep saying, 'Wow, if I was known on the scale of pop stars, my life would be different.' And I like it that way."
shishabat@israelhayom.co.il
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