MK Gadi Eizenkot is very concerned about the path of the state and the current coalition. Nor is he afraid to admit that the struggle against the government needs to be intensified, and not just over matters of judicial legislation.
"The struggle is not only over the reform, the grounds of reasonableness or the committee for selecting judges, but over the face of the State of Israel," the former chief of staff explains in an interview with Israel Hayom.
Tisha B'Av: About 10,000 demonstrate against the legal reform in Tel Aviv | Moshe Ben Simhon
"We are struggling over which country we want to live in: in a powerful Jewish-democratic-liberal state in the spirit of Israel's Declaration of Independence – or perhaps in another country, which will look as some of the parties in the coalition describe it; A conservative Jewish state with messianic ideas – as expressed by Smotrich, who is the strongman in the government.
"Anyone who reads Smotrich's decisive plan understands that he holds a redemptive-messianic worldview, and that this is where he wants to lead the State of Israel. This is a determined minority that leads a worldview according to which the State of Israel should conduct itself according to democratic elements only when it is convenient to take them."
The coalition will answer you: We are democrats and we have a majority of 64 seats.
"I assume that a Jewish-democratic-liberal-progressive state is the desire of 70% of the public. Therefore, it is inconceivable that a minority will impose something else because of a political constellation."
That is, even if all legal reform is shelved, will your struggle against the government continue?
"The struggle is over the state, and Netanyahu is acting against the interests of the state and the goals he has defined. I have a written document that Netanyahu defined for his current government, based on the 13 national interests. By the way, he took one by one the same interests of the Bennett government, to teach you about the staff work and thinking of the "full on full" right.
"Let's examine the interests that Netanyahu has adopted. The first is Iran without nuclear weapons, and he doesn't deal with that. The second - to give security and a sense of security. What sense of security? The murders went up, the situation got worse. The third interest concerns the governance of the state and the consolidation of government, but we saw that Netanyahu took government ministries, dismantled them and harmed governance.
"Undermine governance." Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Photo: Yossi Aloni/Flash90
"Shall we move on to the fourth interest? Strengthening relations with the US. You can see that Netanyahu has weakened his ties with it to the lowest point in years. The fifth interest is related to military superiority. What is happening now is military superiority? Hundreds of pilots are not willing to serve a regime they don't trust, and don't trust an operation order to be issued without a moral eye seeing it."
Eizenkot continues to read from the document the continuation of the list of 13 national interests that Netanyahu has adopted, including strengthening the economy and reducing social rifts. In the end, he concludes: "He defined 13 main interests, and acts against them as if there is some malicious Iranian software to destroy the State of Israel. It doesn't make that much sense. Winning the elections still does not allow him to harm the values of the Declaration of Independence and human rights."
Why seek agreement on reasonableness, judicial selection and reform, if the problem is acute?
"That's right. And here there is a contradiction, because on the one hand they won the elections, and on the other hand, majority rule does not allow them to act in a predatory manner. When they tried to pass a draft law in 2014, the ultra-Orthodox called for insubordination and civil disobedience, and there was the million-man demonstration. Today exactly the same thing is happening to the other population. They don't get it.
"That's why all the sweet sayings of 'we are brothers' don't work. We are brothers, provided you are willing to understand the other side. At the protests, I see quite a few demonstrators with knitted kippahs, including Likud voters. There is a struggle here for the face of the state. The State of Israel is where it goes, and the reform is the first step, because it undermines democracy."
Now that the grounds of reasonableness have passed, are we in a dictatorship?
"We are not a dictatorship, but we live in a country where judicial review of government decisions has been reduced. A country where there is a greater opening for corruption in the public service. The bigger problem is what's to come."
You want them to understand the pain of the liberal public, but can you understand the frustration of the conservative public that wants to exercise its voice?
"I think legal reform is needed. I don't see much diversity in the High Court. I see people being tortured because of an inefficient system. Therefore, I came to the understanding that the political echelon can no longer lead to a solution. I find it difficult to see a meeting of politicians at the president's residence, or elsewhere, that brings an end to the crisis.
Smotrich. Sitting in the government's locomotive, photo: Oren Ben Hakon
"The only way is to establish from next week a public committee of academics agreed upon by all sides, with the participation of religious, secular, women and men, which will sit 24/6, without a deadline. In the meantime, there will be a legislative halt, and there will be no unilateral legislation. Only a public committee alongside a complete halt, and with the help of people who will come with clean hands and bring a proposal to politicians - this is the only way we will get the country out of the crisis."
"There may be one or two objectors"
As a former chief of staff, Eisenkot has an interesting view of the threats of insubordination within the army.
"There has been no refusal yet," he says. "The IDF is the people's army. It has a lot of strengths, it gets the best young men and women and also the reservists. But there are also disadvantages. The People's Army says that 70% of the IDF is a reserve.
"Smotrich called for refusal because of the Joint Service Ordinance, and now he's preaching morality? It's an upside-down world. Smotrich talking about law abiding and blocking roads? He was planning with a terrorist group to carry out an attack. Luckily, he and his friends were arrested. That's the biggest favor they've done him. These are the people who lead, and that's something that doesn't make sense."
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Still, how can a reward be given for refusal?
"Since we are the people's army, during the disengagement they set up stamping booths in order to sign regular and permanent soldiers for refusing orders. I think 13,<> signed at these booths. And it was about 'disengagement,' not about harming basic values of the state.
"The serious thing that happened was that the prime minister saw an opportunity to divert the discourse from the reform to the discourse on refusal, even though in practice there are one or two objectors. Arik Sharon, during the disengagement, had the wisdom not to say 'we will not allow refusal,' but simply to deal with the event.
IDF Chief of Staff Herzi Halevi, Photo: Oren Ben Hakon
"I have an unequivocal statement against refusal, but a refuser is someone who received a draft order and did not come; There are maybe one or two of them. As for everything else, it's about stopping volunteering."
Don't you think it's the same thing?
"If a person is 47 years old and he feels that the state is raising his trust, and he doesn't trust the leaders to give a moral order for an operation, then this is his moral decision.
"If you're within the mandatory age range of reserve duty, that's insubordination, and you have to carry out an order. Whoever doesn't should know that he will be brought to justice."
Should the chief of staff have acted differently in order to stamp out the threats of insubordination from the beginning?
"My criticism is not of the chief of staff, but of the defense minister. Gallant failed in the current round. He failed in a way that reflected to the government the grave reality that the IDF would enter if the rules of the game were broken, and he is a political actor, unlike the chief of staff.
"The person who was supposed to take a stand was Gallant. In my view, he should have done everything until the moment of the vote, and then resigned. He knows the serious consequences, and he failed miserably as defense minister."
"Netanyahu doesn't have the discretion"
Eisenkot met this week with IDF Chief of Staff Herzi Halevi, but he refuses to reveal what was said during their meeting. "We agreed not to exclude from the conversation, and I respect that," he explains, "but I see the updates about a decline in competence within weeks, and I'm concerned."
You said that if an exemption from conscription or a Basic Law: Torah study were enacted here, the checks would intensify.
"The State of Israel has entered a new era, in which 50% serve and pay taxes, while the religious and religious Zionists will not agree to serve, and the government is actually sanctioning evasion.
"I respect Torah learners, but everyone else should be encouraged by the religious leadership to do military or civilian service. What they want instead of a regulated service law is to make a polishtik law.
Knesset Spokesperson's Office
"There is a letter from mothers on the front lines, announcing that if the law passes, their 6,000 sons and daughters will not enlist this year. If the government does that, it will make thousands say they won't enlist."
Don't even have some criticism of the protest? Road blockades, shooting in the air, smashing a car windshield - the coalition argues for selective enforcement.
"The cross-party protest deserves all praise in my eyes and they should be saluted. However, it is impossible to tolerate violence of any kind. Those who smashed Moses should be condemned, caught, and put two years in prison. I am against civil disobedience, and I have made hundreds of calls to try to influence speech and actions. At every opportunity I say that I am against refusal and that the IDF must be protected. In the big picture, we must not end the incident by defeating Side B. I call for demonstrating according to the law. Anyone who goes down and blocks a road does so knowing that they may pay a price, and the police have to enforce."
So is there or is there no selective enforcement?
"I think not, although in terms of the number of indictments, that speaks for itself. I say in general that anyone who breaks the law, whether right or left, should be dealt with."
You're drawing a horror script. If Netanyahu says, "I'm shelving the reform and removing Smotrich and Ben-Gvir," are you in favor of entering his government?
"I don't want to negotiate. I will support from the outside anything that will strengthen the country, even if it is contrary to the state camp. I have already proven in my military career that I am independent. Netanyahu is not the engine of the government, he sits in the car. Those sitting in Qatar are Smotrich and Ben-Gvir."
"Change Code of Conduct". MK Galit Distel, Photo: Oren Ben Hakon
So why refuse a national emergency government?
"It's not on the agenda. Not something that was offered to us, and not something we are considering. Experience of the recent past proves that it does not work. Netanyahu no longer has the discretion to sit in the prime minister's chair. Exactly what he warned would happen to Olmert happened to him."
What would you do in their place?
"I would recommend to them, beyond the public committee I proposed and to stop the legislation, to also announce that there will be no more laws that will harm the IDF as the people's army.
"I would suggest changing the code of conduct that causes the rift. Ministers who call on pilots to go to hell or jail have no place in political life. Miri Regev and Shlomo Karai and Galit Distal should be condemned, but the prime minister did not say a word of criticism about them, thereby legitimizing it. They can whine about the opposition and the attorney general, but they are the authority right now."
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