As of: January 25, 2024, 4:59 a.m
By: Marcus Mäckler, Georg Anastasiadis
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Hungary's Foreign Minister Peter Szijjártó.
(Archive image) © MICHAL CIZEK/AFP
After Turkey's approval, all that remains is Hungary's "yes" for Sweden to join NATO.
Foreign Minister Szijjártó remains cautious.
Munich – Péter Szijjártó (45) is an unusual diplomat: polite in his dealings – sometimes extremely direct.
We meet Hungary's Foreign Minister from the Fidesz party in the BMW high-rise in Munich; he has just come from discussions on the 21st floor.
It was not yet clear at the time of the interview that Prime Minister Viktor Orbán wanted to pressure parliament to approve Sweden's NATO membership.
Szijjártó is still more skeptical than his boss.
Minister, Turkey has agreed to Sweden's accession to NATO, only Hungary is missing. Are you following suit?
The government submitted the proposal to parliament in the summer of 2022.
So far, the MPs have not discussed it and I will tell you why not.
We as Fidesz have many self-confident parliamentarians who have been sitting in parliament for years and have repeatedly fought for their mandates.
When these people regularly hear that our system is illegitimate, dictatorial and not a democracy, they naturally feel attacked.
And Sweden was one of the countries most vocal about such accusations.
Block your people because they are offended?
You have to understand this.
After a while, the MPs just say to themselves: Well, Sweden, if that's your opinion, then please don't expect any support from us.
But if you want support, first gain our trust.
Sweden's NATO membership: Hungary first wants to see “confidence-building measures”.
Should Sweden go to Canossa?
This is not an emotional thing, but a rational one.
When it came to Finland's NATO application, my Finnish colleague came to Budapest and assured that his country would work with Hungary.
I also asked my Swedish colleague to visit us and speak in Parliament.
So far in vain.
Does that mean you're letting Sweden flounder?
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I only have one vote in Parliament.
But if you ask me about the general mood, I would say: Yes, confidence-building measures are needed before MPs agree.
It is no coincidence that they have not discussed this matter for a year and a half.
One gets the impression that Hungary is looking for a place between the West and Russia. Why?
We don't search, we have our place.
We are members of the EU and NATO.
Point.
In order for Europe to remain a safe place in the future, there must be open communication between Russia and the Western world.
We Hungarians have experienced for 40 years what it is like when there is no real communication between East and West.
That was a lost time.
What you call communication, others call Kremlin coddling.
I hear that accusation again and again.
Have you ever asked yourself how it is that Russia was the largest supplier of uranium to the USA last year?
The Americans have paid more than a billion dollars to Russia.
If we buy Russian gas, they say we are sponsoring the war against Ukraine.
Nobody asks the Americans, it's pure double standards.
But of course, it's no fun jumping on the lion's back.
It's better to trample on Hungary.
Despite the Ukraine war, Hungary's Prime Minister Victor Orban (left) remains in close contact with Vladimir Putin.
© Alexander Zemlianichenko/dpa/archive image
EU asylum reform: Hungary dissatisfied with quota system
The Americans want to ban uranium imports in the future. And unlike you, the US supports Ukraine...
Look, when we make our decisions, we don't care what others think.
We are a sovereign country and we don't care whether Moscow likes our Ukraine policy or not.
Moscow certainly likes the fact that you are not supplying weapons to Kiev.
Right, we don't do that.
There are 150,000 Hungarians living in Ukraine and we don't want them to become victims.
Have Germans already died in this war?
Luckily not.
But Hungary does.
They are drafted, sent to the front and many of them die.
And of course we do a lot for Ukraine.
More than a million refugees have come through our country or stayed with us.
We help Ukraine a lot, just not with weapons.
Hungary has long insisted on a tough EU migration policy, but now something is moving. Are you satisfied with the EU asylum reform?
We are protecting the external border of the Schengen area and the pressure has increased significantly.
Our border guards are in constant danger of losing their lives because many smugglers, as well as refugees, carry weapons with them.
Is not that crazy?
They are protecting the border and are being shot at.
This is not acceptable.
Nevertheless, the EU is unable to make a clear distinction between illegal migrants and guest workers.
When I hear that we need this kind of migration to attract workers, I say: nonsense.
Anyone looking for workers should let in those they need.
But this is a purely national matter.
Even the German government is slowly changing its mind...
Many in Europe are now saying things that we said in 2015 and were labeled fascists for it.
The problem is this: as long as there is a redistribution of illegal migrants in the EU, this will be a pull factor.
People come because they know they will be distributed.
The quota system should be abolished completely.
Unfortunately, it is also part of the current asylum reform.
The migration issue makes populists strong. Do you see parties like the AfD as allies?
We have good connections with Rassemblement National, with whom we agree on many issues.
We have a good cooperation with Geert Wilders and the Spanish Vox.
But there are no connections to the AfD.