SPIEGEL: Mr. Haseloff, what do you think of a primary election of the chancellor candidate of the Union, as demanded in petitions for the CDU party congress this week?
Haseloff: We did such a basic survey here in Saxony-Anhalt last year when it came to the CDU federal presidency. This then served our delegates at the party convention as orientation. So I would not rule out such a thing for the chancellor candidate in general.
SPIEGEL: At that time, more than half of the participants in the national association voted for Friedrich Merz.
Haseloff: Yes, that was the mood at the time.
SPIEGEL: Would you like to see Friedrich Merz as a chancellor candidate?
Haseloff: This decision is not up to now. We are still in the program debate, which should be completed next year. Then we decide who will go to the chancellery. Incidentally, Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer and Friedrich Merz are not so different programmatically as you suspect.
SPIEGEL: Merz described the appearance of the federal government as "bad of a grotto". Do you share this diagnosis?
Haseloff: In the outside world, that's true at times. The approval sinks despite the good work. Not only does it hurt Merz, but also me.
SPIEGEL: Does the grand coalition last until the end of the legislature?
Haseloff: Of course, the coalition holds out. The coalition agreement between the CDU, CSU and SPD is ambitious and sets the right accents. This also applies to the previous work. Never before have we taken so much money in hand and launched so many programs.
SPIEGEL: In a party motion, the women's union demands the introduction of a women's quota; in future, all positions of the party should be filled with at least one third of women. What do you make of it?
Sebastian Willnow
Questioning the basis? "I would not rule out such a thing for the chancellor candidate in general"
Haseloff: I'm critical. All interventions in the free decision should be weighed very well. I lived in the GDR, where everything was determined and regulated right up to school. At any rate, my idea of an attractive democracy does not correspond to a given quota. And after all, there are currently just over 26 percent of CDU members nationwide. That is significantly less than a third.
SPIEGEL: What is your recipe for more women in politics in general and especially in leadership positions at the CDU?
Haseloff: In my hometown Wittenberg the CDU parliamentary group leader is a woman, as well as the city council chairwoman and the district chairman. In my constituency, most important posts are filled with women. They did it all by themselves. By the way, my wife is also city councilor and vehemently rejects a quota. The men have to take more consideration for the women and the women have to throw more into the race. For those women who choose the CDU, we need to encourage them to join us.
SPIEGEL: You are governing in an anti-AfD coalition with the SPD and the Greens, Brandenburg has also formed such a Kenya alliance, Saxony is likely to follow. Are you worried that such multi-tier coalitions could ultimately strengthen right-wing populists?
Haseloff: We should sharpen our view: The old West German camp thinking between center-left and center-right does not bring us any further today. Especially not here in the East. There is also the possibility of profiling one's own party beyond the camp formation. We have long arrived in a new, all-German party system.
SPIEGEL: Pardon, but the ongoing coalition with each other in Berlin has obviously not only massively harmed the SPD, but also your party. Does not it again need democratic camps that can alternate with the government?
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Haseloff: That's the West German look. Coalitions of the middle can be closed not only by the people's parties Union and SPD, but also by several partners. We would be in a completely different situation today if the FDP had not left the field prematurely at the 2017 Jamaican Soundings in Berlin.
SPIEGEL: The FDP argued with substantive differences.
Haseloff: Oh, I can refer to my government: The spread from the conservatives in my CDU to the left in the Greens, which is as broad as ever within a German government. That works, you have to endure that. We get joint projects.
SPIEGEL: However, there are efforts in your national association and in the CDU parliamentary group to open up to the AfD. What are you doing about it?
Haseloff: The majorities in my party are clear. Those who wish to be open to the AfD are the clear minority. And they will remain in the minority if nothing breaks down on the left side of the party spectrum. How it goes on between the CDU and AfD in the long term is also decided on the left.
Voice # 120 - "Split as never" - how the generation of Wallfall sees the country
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SPIEGEL: That's something you have to explain.
Haseloff: In Bremen govern SPD and Greens with the left, in Berlin too. In Thuringia, the left is the prime minister. From my East German point of view, it turns out this way: Here, a party rules with, which still has a system change in the program. That is not without problems. And my party friends who are still in the minority say: Look what's happening in Bremen - if they work with the left, why can not we talk to parts of the AfD?
SPIEGEL: You make no difference between Left Party and AfD?
Haseloff: Of course I do that. One can not equate The Left and the AfD. However, this is not about my opinion, but I try to describe the discussion in my party.
SPIEGEL: Your lesson?
Haseloff: For me clearly applies: no coalition or cooperation with the AfD or the left. The CDU should not wobble there.
SPIEGEL: When will we no longer distinguish between East and West in Germany?
Haseloff: East and West have already approached without a doubt. Nevertheless, further alignment is a generational task. There are many causes for persistent differences, many structural inequalities.
Sebastian Willnow
CDU politician Haseloff, SPIEGEL editors Fischer, Lehmann
SPIEGEL: For example?
Haseloff: The alignment of living conditions will take some time. Take the wages. The annual working time in the East is higher than in the West, but wages are often well below the western wages. There are still different legal bases for pensions. Or let's look at tax law. It benefits corporate headquarters where management and research are concentrated. Here the taxes are paid off, to the detriment of the production facilities, the extended workbenches that we have in the East.
SPIEGEL: Is not the transformation performance of the East Germans appreciated enough over the past three decades?
Haseloff: It lacks the symbols that something has changed for the West Germans, not just for us East Germans.
SPIEGEL: Please give an example.
Haseloff: Bonn is still the seat of government, there are still six ministries have their headquarters, including the important Ministry of Defense. Bonn has developed well in the last three decades, the city has been compensated rightly. Now it's time for the last ministries to relocate to Berlin. Bonn should no longer be the seat of government. That would be a strong symbol, especially to the East Germans.
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