From the Maria Grazia Chiuri office you can see the Seine. It would be poetic to say that the light gushes in through its huge windows, but also false. In Paris it is a day of dogs and the sun is not reflected in the frames of the dozens of covers that hang from its walls - and among which there is only one Spanish, belonging to a number of Temptations of 2017 -. Alongside them, several feminist-themed collages by Kelly HR, a huge photograph of the march of the miniskirts (a demonstration held in 1970 in Mexico City to claim the right to wear this garment) and a poster with a phrase by the artist and writer Lucia Marcucci: "Fate is in our hands." The space could not be more eloquent. He talks about the universe and the obsessions of the first woman at the helm of Dior in 74 years of history; from the 56-year-old designer who has turned feminism into the commercial and story line of one of the most important luxury brands in the world; the daughter of an Italian dressmaker who has skyrocketed sales of a French company whose annual revenue exceeds € 47 billion.
From a creative director praised by fashion critics during the eight years that Valentino captained along with the also Roman Pierpaolo Piccioli, to be then persistently questioned as the maximum person in charge of the Dior women's division. A position in which she turns four and a half years certain of her road map and that it is suicidal to continue making fashion as until now. One week remains for her show on February 25 and the meetings follow each other on the designer's agenda. Finally, Chiuri enters the office wearing jeans, trainers and a maroon sweater. A chain with the "S" for Superman hangs from his neck. She wears her hair slicked back and no makeup. Immediately, a defect is obvious: it is not photogenic. The designer wins - and a lot - live.
Why did you choose feminism as the axis of your creative discourse?
It was very personal. I spent eight months in talks with Dior. I started talking to Mr. Arnault [owner of the LVMH group, to which the firm belongs] and Mr. Toledano [then president of the brand] in September and accepted the position in June. From the first moment they told me that one of the main values of Dior that they wanted to convey was that it was a feminine brand. I replied that if we were to talk about femininity, we had to do it from a different perspective than that of the house's creator codes — developed in 1946 — and that, in addition, allowed me to express my point of view. Because it was impossible for me to work with such distant references.
How did you manage to carry out that idea?
I wrote them a folio in which I explained in a very simple way what my vision of contemporary women was. I am an Italian designer, the house is French and we speak to women from all over the world. And I thought in what terms we could establish this conversation. So for my first show I decided to collaborate with Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie [author of the essay We should all be feminists ], because her perspective is very current, and when most people think of feminism, they think of the seventies and angry women; and I think that today we are not angry, but worried. I am for the future of my children: not only for Rachele, but also for Niccolò. We are at the only moment in history when we start talking about inclusion.
And after that parade came the MeToo , feminist protests around the world ...
For me it was a surprise. When I spoke with Chimamanda I understood that it was a global problem and that it was not only linked to my own experience.
Is fashion or should it be political?
I honestly think that today everything is political. The stereotypical idea that fashion is a dream world was only real in the past, when the industry and its audience were small. We are now a big business and, with new technologies, everyone sees what we do instantly.
It is curious that two of the designers who have a more social and vindictive approach to fashion are the Gucci creative director, Alessandro Michele, and you. Why are Italian designers the most intense?
He is younger than me, but we are both from Rome, a beautiful city but full of contradictions. This helps you to better perceive those that define the era in which we live. Also to work with a more open vision. In addition, we are both in big brands that end up reflecting that very specific context of ours. I think he understands me and I understand him very well.
Social engagement has also become a very powerful marketing tool.
The key is to believe in what you are doing. If not, it doesn't work. Feminism touches me in a very personal way, just as the reflection on gender and diversity touches Michele. We both dream of seeing people as human beings and there is no need to stereotype that idea. We use two different codes, but in the end we are talking about the same thing: the heteropatriarchal vision. And that we do not agree with it. I am especially concerned about the new generations. They have to be critical of the information they receive because in most cases it reflects this perspective and the interests of the heteropatriarchy.
Are younger generations less critical?
New technologies facilitate access to information, but academic training is essential. Culture gives you freedom. I read Why have there been no great female artists? , by Linda Nochlin, when I was older, because in my youth it was not translated into Italian and my English was not very good. If I had then, it would have changed my way of thinking and helped me understand more about myself. I grew up surrounded by all that wonderful art signed by men, but it would have been very important to discover and have female references. I think it should be read at school.
Soizic Pfaff, responsible for the Dior archive, says that Raf Simons was only interested in textiles and embroidery, but that you work as a museum curator.
I have never wanted to personalize the brands, but to work for them. We live in a time when the designer can change, but the firm must move on. And as it is a historical emblem, you cannot forget its references, and not only those created by Christian Dior, but also by Yves Saint Laurent, Marc Bohan or Gianfranco Ferré. Because part of his legacy remains in the memory of the people and must be preserved.
How is your creative process?
You cannot plan creativity. It is built day by day, but the most important thing is to maintain a clear long-term vision for the brand. And to nurture it, in my case, it is essential to establish a dialogue with other women, collaborate with artists - writers, dancers, photographers - because in a way, their work revolves around the woman's body, and in the end that's what we all talk
The shirt, the corset dress, the shoes with the brand name printed. He has created codes for Dior that remain season after season. But some consider that they are too repetitive, that there is no evolution.
Many people think that, as fashion is more visible thanks to new technologies, each show has to be like a new movie, pure entertainment. But I believe in style, not change for change. Nor in doing it to surprise.
Are there any other reviews that bother you?
When I arrived at Dior I decided to make the Bar jacket [an American jacket created by Christian Dior with a marked waist and bulky on the hips] lighter and more wearable. They criticized me because they said it was too commercial a version. I think it has to do with this stereotypical idea that creativity should not take women's comfort into account. They do not think that Mr. Dior created it in 1947. Then, the clients went to the atelier and the garment was made to measure. That makes the difference. But this is ready-to-wear , and we have to offer a jacket that women can buy in the store and that is comfortable for them regardless of size and without the need for touch-ups. I am very proud that the buyers understand and appreciate this. I love fashion and that's why I want to wear it, wear it, it's not something I just want to look at.
What are your goals for Dior?
It is very difficult to make plans in fashion because everything changes incessantly. Honestly, the only sure thing is that we cannot continue making fashion as we have until now. Cultural appropriation, feminism, gender, sustainability ... are very important elements that force us to work in a completely different way because we target global audiences, not a small group of customers who go to stores.
What is the most difficult thing about working in a global brand like Dior?
The worst thing is that now we are going very fast and we do not have time to enjoy, not even to have a small party after each parade for the team, because we always have to start the next project immediately. Sometimes, we even work in two at the same time, because otherwise it is impossible to meet deadlines.
But this has not always been the case. How have the demands that a designer has to face have changed?
I usually say, "I started working when Prada didn't exist." That helps you get an idea. My children cannot believe it. I remember when Patrizio Bertelli [CEO of Prada] worked for Anna Fendi making belts. And here I link to an example of the transformation of the industry: When Niccolò was 17 he went to Sydney and got lost. Then he called me and I said, "Don't worry, Google a Prada store, not a museum or anything else, Prada, and when you find it you'll be in the center." That gives you an idea that today fashion is not only global, but very popular thanks to new technologies. In some ways it is good, but we have to use these means to educate and explain.
Will Instagram end the parades?
At first it only allowed you to appreciate things that had a great visual impact. The risk for creatives was that it required designing clothes that were very photographic efficient and full of color. But now, with the videos, you can explain all the manual work that exists, for example, behind a black dress and people love it. I have two superdigital children and I remember when they told me: "There is something called Instagram and you will surely love it." I like it, but it's not my language. However, I feel that the podcast is closer to me and my generation. It attracts me because it allows you to listen again. It is one thing to describe an artist, share their photo, and quite another to hear their voice explaining their point of view in conversation.
It seems that the trends have disappeared. Everything takes. Good or bad news?
Clothing helps you describe yourself. And I don't like imposing a point of view on anyone. Because I don't want them to do it with me. When I got to Dior I used to spend all the time: when there was a party, they asked me what I was going to wear so I wouldn't give it to someone else. I said to them: "Sorry, but I have no idea, I decided five minutes before and it depends on my state of mind, my feelings." Women, and also men, have moments when we want to be romantic; others, cool . You should not give up because something is not a trend. Nothing is right or wrong. Sometimes my daughter Rachele says to me: "This is not a good idea", and I always reply: "Well, I like it, what difference does it make!"
What is the biggest challenge facing the current luxury industry?
Still, I'm a bit romantic, but I think that in these troubled times we have to re-understand creativity in a simple way. Make a dress, some beautiful shoes… This season I decided to travel to meet some of our suppliers in person. When I was young, I went with Fendi to visit the manufacturers in Tuscany. They were always family businesses, and I think those human relationships are finally reflected in the product. But when you get to my position it is a little more difficult to keep doing it. Recovering this experience enchanted me, it was like being young again.
Will you continue to do so?
Yes, I want to repeat and have the youngest of my team come, because they have never experienced it. It is important to find solutions in person, not only by email or through a WhatsApp image. You have to put on your face and stain your hands. It's nice. Go back to work together. Recover the human factor.
