Not entirely by chance, this interview with Dmitry Chernyshev began at the "Bridge of Wishes" in Jaffa.
A site with a very symbolic name. Have you already thought about a wish?
"I have one wish, and that is for a certain person to die, and it's not hard to guess who he is."
It is not difficult to understand who the blogger, author and lecturer Chernyshev, who is also the founder of the Russian resistance movement calling for the overthrow of Putin, and in fact the first public figure in Russia calling for doing so with a weapon in hand, if necessary, meant.
Just a few days ago, he published the movement's manifesto, in which there was an unequivocal call for rebellion.
"The resistance movement announces preparations for the overthrow of the criminal regime," opened the manifesto, which received great resonance on social media in Russia.
"We will use all methods, including the right of the people to revolt. This is an inalienable right of the citizens, to defend in every way, including armed struggle, their rights and freedoms from those seizing power by force. We used all the usual means: organized demonstrations - and dispersed; And they were imprisoned; we waged political struggles - and the opposition murdered, imprisoned, deported or tried to poison.
"Today, all civil rights in Russia are abolished. Not a single section of the constitution works. Extreme censorship is in place. People are banned for calling for peace. For presenting the commandment 'Thou shalt not kill.' Because of a blank sheet of paper. "Against Ukraine. The resistance movement calls on all opponents of the regime to stop the internal intrigue, and to unite to overthrow the dictatorship. Now we need everyone."
The proclamation, about a page and a half long, was already published by Chernyshev from Israel.
Why did he come here?
Because of one statement in the investigation, to which he was summoned - not to mention abducted - earlier this month.
One evening three unknown people approached him on the street, said "Dmitry Alexandrovich, come with us" - and took him to the police station.
They did not bother to introduce themselves, but immediately began a two-and-even investigation: Who pays him for the anti-war posts?
How much did he sell the homeland to?
"Why are you insulting the legally elected president?" "And if Putin is harmed by any post, he can sue me."
According to Chernyshev, the interrogation lasted in this spirit for about three hours, and did not really impress him.
After all, he has been interrogated more than once in the past, and has even run several arrests because of his political activities.
But then the interrogators pulled out the card he could not restrain.
"You have children, Dmitry Alexandrovich. Have you thought about their fate? Do you know what we can do with them?"
Here, Chernyshev admits, he broke down - and signed an undertaking to cease his activities on the network.
Otherwise, according to the law passed in the Russian parliament, they would almost certainly be sentenced to 15 years in prison.
Chernyshev was indeed silenced for a few days on the network - and then wound up in Israel, in part because almost the entire Western world was closed to flights from Russia.
"We tried to get to Istanbul, but the Turks canceled the flights. You sell everything for pennies. Abandon your friends. Leave your beloved city. All your life go into one suitcase and a thin pack of dollars. Start from scratch."
And so he found himself in Tel Aviv, in part because his wife and little daughter were Jewish.
The wife, Anna, is a photographer and content editor by profession, and 13-year-old Sasha is a student.
From here, from a friends' apartment in Jaffa, he also launched the resistance movement.
Are there people who criticize you for leaving Russia and calling for rebellion from outside?
"Certainly, they write to me, 'You're scared, you slipped into Israel, and you are washing us up to burn zinzana.' But I was not afraid for the eight years I was already under surveillance. "I would be less helpful out of prison. I understand the nature of the claim and accept it, but you know, it's like arguing with de Gaulle why he left France. If he had stayed - he would have been put in a concentration camp, and outside of France he did much more for her."
I mean, you do not think there was room for martyrdom here. You examined things pragmatically.
"No. Because I did not know if they would let me leave Russia, I decided among myself: If they let me out - I will deal with it from another country. If they do not let me - then I will go underground, live with friends in some hiding place in Moscow, I will not leave the room, "I will connect to a VPN, so it will not be easy to find me. But they allowed me to leave."
Are you not afraid that they will try to reach you here?
"Of course I'm afraid they'll try to reach me, but I understand how cumbersome, bureaucratic and lazy a system is, which should even notice a threat, then find budgets and then operations, all against the backdrop of a failed war and purges in its ranks - so there is hope. I guess this whole regime It will collapse in a few weeks, so they will not be able to reach me. "
Putin with Russian generals.
"Let's say he does not understand anything of what is happening in reality," Photo: AFP
Translator for drug barons
In a hiding place in Moscow, or in Israel, if there is anything that can be clearly said about Chernyshev it is that the man knows how to reinvent himself - no matter where.
He was born 56 years ago in Moscow, to a shop assistant and a father who worked as a driver.
He spent his childhood in a communal apartment (spacious private apartments, which after the Bolshevik revolution and nationalization were inhabited by many families, instead of the original bourgeois owners).
Eight people in one room, shifts in the shower, separate toilet seats that each family brings to the shared bathroom.
Fortunately, as the future would see, he was educated in a school with Spanish studies, but the event that turned his world upside down was when his father went to work in Hungary and took him with him.
"I was 13, I lived in Budapest for three years and immediately became anti-Soviet. I left Moscow, where I had to stand in line for two hours to buy cheese, and I thought to myself: how can these people live a thousand times better than us? It's not fair. More on Thus, in Hungary I had access to every book I wanted, and I read Bulgakov and everyone who was banned in the USSR at the time.
After returning to the USSR, he was admitted to the Moscow Aviation Institute and studied in the prestigious Department of Cosmonautics, but retired because he discovered, he said, that "this is not it." In the Marine Corps, stationed in Ukraine, just at the time of the Chernobyl disaster in 1986. "We moved our unit to secure the reactor, and for six months we lived next to it in tents," he recalls.
His most prominent memory from there was the discovery of Soviet cynicism and the brawl in the army.
"On the one hand, for safety reasons they explained to us that it is forbidden to pick fruit and miss cucumbers. On the other hand, so that free radiation is not wasted, they sent the special force battalion to handle chemical incidents for a successful exercise, under increased radiation conditions. No one in command cared."
After his release he worked as a guard and driver, but most of all his working life as a sufferer in a bookstore affected his life.
“It was the most intellectual bunch I came across,” he recalls.
"I was sure porters were drinking port wine straight from the bottle, but the first topic of conversation that came up between us was the theory of traces of contact with alien civilizations in the Bible.
I collected a huge library of about 5,000 volumes, but I abandoned everything when I left. "
His next job was "One of the Funniest": a translator on hunting trips.
"I went around with all kinds of drug lords who roamed Russia and hunted bears, and I translated for them. I deafened all the former Soviet Union, from Turkmenistan to Chukotka.
It was fascinating on an indescribable level, but my wife objected. "
Chernyshev's next stop was in the media: he started as a printmaker, studied design, progressed to art director, then for years worked as the creative director of an advertising agency, and is considered one of the best in the field.
He finally got well drunk, but at one point he broke down.
"I realized I was wasting my life to get people to buy junk. After all, that's basically the essence of advertising. I left everything, and turned to researching a topic that really intrigued me: How do people come up with ideas? I wanted to understand how it works."
Chernyshev deaf books in the field, and eventually published his own book, "How People Think," which he said won nine prints.
His uniqueness has also brought him groundbreaking projects, such as a course in creative thinking for the Higher School of Economics (one of the most prestigious academic institutions in Russia), as well as workshops at companies such as Microsoft, Deutsche Bank and other entities.
He recently taught at Direct Speech - an arena for public lectures, where he taught out-of-the-box thinking and education reforms, an area in which he published his third book ("I have four daughters, it intrigued me terribly").
You move from field to field, not staying in place. Rebellious in your character?
"I would not say that I am rebellious, but if something does not interest me, you can not hold me for money. I must have some idea that will inspire, what meaning. I do not have much left to live, so yes, I want meaning. I am very pleased that my daughters They tell me they're proud of me, proud that I'm not silent, I think it's normal for a person to respect himself.
"We do not know what will be left behind. You know, there was a poet in the 19th century, Fyodor Miller by name. He left six volumes of stories and poetry, and was sure to enter the pages of the history of Russian literature. Do you know what the only thing he remembers today?" , Two, three, four, the rabbit went out to a party '(popular children's song; db).
"Sometimes we think we're doing something very important, but then it turns out that it was all nonsense in the juice."
A typical Chernyshev post, Photo: From Facebook
"They will try to create provocation"
In parallel with his many pursuits, Chernyshev started a blog on a prominent Russian platform, and a few years later became one of the ten most-read bloggers in the country.
In 2014, he also published in this blog the bomb that placed him in a confrontation with the authorities.
The days were the days of celebrations for the "return of the Crimea," the operation in which Russia took control of the Ukrainian peninsula without a single shot and annexed it to its territory.
In Russia, Putin was praised, his ratings soared, but Chernyshev wrote a post under the glaring headline "The Anschluss" (the name of the annexation of Austria by Nazi Germany in 1938).
"Do you want me to tell you what will happen not to Ukraine, but to Russia?" He wrote, "First there will be a beautiful picture on TV. There will be a Russian flag.A tearful elderly woman thanks to an embarrassed soldier - 'Thank you, dear son.' And there will be fireworks.
"Do you think that will free Crimea from fascism?"
Chernyshev stung Russian propaganda in those days.
"No, that's how fascism will enter Russia. Because that's just the beginning. Do you know what will happen next? Then they will show programs on state channels about the cruelty of Ukrainian aggressors. Paid comedians will make up jokes about Ukrainian food. They will tell how Russians humiliate Lvov. Calling to respond and put in place ... Then there will be a terrorist attack, it is clear who organized and who paid for it. The ruble will collapse. Maybe you're here in the home front? In the army they will start praying every day. Any criticism of the government will be considered treason. They will start hunting the infidels. The history textbook will be rewritten. Show trials will start.
It is difficult to underestimate the accuracy with which Chernyshev's prophecy was fulfilled - from the persecution of the opposition to anti-Ukrainian propaganda, from the play of explosions (see the staged explosion in Donetsk a week before the invasion of Ukraine) to the disappearance of products from the shops. Our treasures. "
It is enough to listen to Putin's last speech a week ago to realize that while Russia still has a democratic appearance, neo-fascism of a certain kind has completely taken over the country.
"Tactically - I'm pessimistic, because I think in the short term in Russia it will only get worse," Chernyshev says.
"Strategically - I'm optimistic. Russia is part of European civilization, and all the legends about the special spirituality, or the special way, are complete lies."
Lies, but Putin, and at least some of the elite around him, seem to believe that way.
"Everyone has the right to his own hallucinations. Certainly if he suffers from dementia, drug use and impotence. Does he want a 'special way'? their.
Here's the flag, here's the drums - and go ahead, step!
No one will interfere with their mission.
For health.
But they will be the first to go bankrupt. "
Only in the meantime, they are setting the tone.
"They do not set the tone, they do not control anything. It is dying. In my opinion, it is a matter of a few months. Like the battleship 'Yamato' (a Japanese battleship sunk in World War II; db), the case is lost.
The ship leans to its side and sinks, and it can only blow itself up.
That's it, it's dying. "
What is the chance that the government will succeed in surviving? That Putin and his people will succeed in suppressing anything?
"Obviously they will try. They are very likely to try to create some kind of provocation now. Maybe even an explosion in a nuclear facility. They owe justification for general recruitment. 'Special operation', as the war in Ukraine is called, does not assume general recruitment, but 40 percent of Russia's army Physically.There are 20 percent casualties, crumbled units are returned to the rear to replenish the manpower situation.These are not combat-capable units.
"Russia is no longer with the load. And apart from the aggravation of oppression, there is nothing left for power. Then? The country will be thrown into the 19th century. Even the planes will not be able to fly, because in Russia nothing is produced. Everything will start to fall apart very quickly. 'The rotten liberals and intelligentsia'; what frightens him is the empty pot marches, when people have nothing to feed their children.
"Look, before the start of the war in Ukraine I wrote that politically the war will be suicide. Economically - suicide. Militarily - also. No one will lead to war, but there is one factor that is no longer in control: Putin is an insane person, and that overshadows everything." .
Not too simplistic a description?
"Let's say that Putin does not understand anything of what is happening in reality. For so long he has cut off all channels of communication with the world, the very possibility of re-feeding, that as a result of negative choice only people are left around him who tell him what he wants to hear.
"He listens to the program of Vladimir Soloviev (one of the most prominent campaigners in Russia; DB), and believes everything he says.
They created propaganda messages, then believed in them themselves.
There is a good phrase that says 'you can only lean on what opposes you, what gives a contra'.
Here the man surrounded himself with soft and flexible shit, and therefore could not lean on anyone.
"Everyone tells him yes, but they can do nothing."
Putin is also responsible for the catastrophe of the Russian army in Ukraine? In the last month the impression has been created that the whole Russian army is a kind of backdrop, one huge "Potemkin village".
"It scares me to say this, but I thank Putin for the corruption. With all due respect to Alexei Navalny (the world-famous Russian oppositionist, who survived an assassination attempt and is now being held in a penal colony in Russia; DB) - we know personally - scares me to think what would have happened If he had defeated corruption in Russia, and all the trillions would have really gone to arming and improving the military.
The fact that the fat generals stole everything saved Ukraine.
"And let's compare this war to the Gulf War in 1990, when Saddam Hussein occupied Kuwait. The Americans and their allies, before invading Iraq, crushed the air force and Iraqi air force from the air for three weeks.
This idiot, Putin, did nothing: he threw his soldiers into Ukraine because he thought they would receive them with flowers.
"And to these mistakes must be added the inconceivable courage of the Ukrainians. It is simply science fiction. Ukraine did what NATO had to do: it alone crushed the entire Russian army.
Ukraine wants to be accepted into the European Union, and is likely to be accepted as well, and that would be a great honor for the EU.
"Everyone now understands that when we talk about the new great Vladimir, we do not mean Putin."
Russian tanks hit Ukraine.
"I thank Putin for the corruption in the military," Photo: Reuters
Let's go back to the villain, whom you mentioned earlier. You call for rebellion, but what is the horizon for resistance in Russia?
"Nabalani.
There were demonstrations in favor of his release, but they did not change anything.
"God forbid this is a criticism of a villain, but he has attacked corruption. My partners and I are thinking of a 'new state' project, which aims to show that average citizen how wonderful can be, how great can be the state we can build. In my opinion, the image should be drawn. The country where people will want to live, so that a person can say: Well, it's possible otherwise.
"Nabalani's war on corruption has overshadowed everything. It's a disadvantage. People need to be shown not only what we want to get away from, but also why we want to get closer. B) and travelers fight for the mortgage.
They are untalented, no one needs them.
Where would such a young man go to work?
As a security guard?
Had he received a good education, he would have found himself a better job than serving in the military.
"All the problems of Russian society start with the education system ... There are extremely talented people in Russia. In the 1990s we had no programmers, no bankers, no marketers - they barely knew English. For a year people learned everything and created Yandex, which competes without "I have no strategic concern about the future of Russia. We can tilt the world in our direction so that all the money will come to us. You will see Ireland or Estonia, which have become great places to invest. If we create favorable conditions, they will come to us."
Look at the history of protests in Russia in recent years. You do not see millions taking to the streets. It's acquired helplessness, or what?
"In the past, the Chinese carried boxes with fireflies with them. In captivity, the little creatures felt bad, and lost their appetite. To get them back on track, they had to be bounced in the air. The flight would give them wings. So do we: every success, every achievement - do it This is the only cure for our helplessness.
"Elsewhere, a state has not invested such a fortune to deceive, corrupt and divide the nation. This does not mean that the Russians are bad. It means that they have been given a more cruel dictatorship. "B), they were very lucky that President Yanukovych was weak.
Had Putin or Lukashenko been in his place, they would have drowned them all in rivers of blood.
"There is a theory that if 3.5 percent of the population took to the streets, they would overthrow any government. But look at Belarus: far more than 3.5 percent went out there. Reconciliation. "
Was this the mistake of the protest in Belarus? That they did not take up arms?
"Yes. If they had done that, they could have won. But it was also harder for the Belarusians to win, because Putin was behind Lukashenko. There is no one behind Putin. Therefore, it will be easier for Putin to overthrow than for Lukashenko.
"And I will say one more thing: I really do not like conversations about mentality, 'slave consciousness' and permanence. They say that the Russians have lived like this for centuries. So what? Listen, how many years have Jews lived in exile? There were also those who said it was forbidden to establish a state. "In the sacred language. Then Herzl came and wrote 'Altneuland', in which he described the future Jewish state and described that it was possible, and here - the state was established."
We are now sitting in Tel Aviv, the city whose name is the translation of the name of Herzl's book into Hebrew.
"You see? One of the goals of our movement is to compile a similar book: to describe the country in which the citizens of Russia will want to live."
In the meantime, you offer them a guerrilla war. What can an average Russian resident do today?
"First and foremost - to spread information. Page, markers, stencil. Write: 'Putin is worth war, Putin is worth poverty'. These messages should shout from every street corner. Besides, there is a great sentence in planes: 'First put on the mask, and only So about the child. True, it's selfish, but it's right to worry about some safety net.
"And so in the current situation: when there is a safety net, you are capable of more. Once you have achieved it, you can move on to more aggressive actions - for example, burn the National Guard cars (Chernyshov posted on his Facebook page a list of 198 protests, anyone can choose from; "B).
Gathering for demonstrations now is something that just will not work, because we announce in advance where we are going - and get beaten up.
"Now imagine: Every day a demonstration is announced - and you do not come to it. Or come to another place. Imagine what happens to the security forces, how difficult it is for them: in the morning they have order, preparations and hop - cancellation. Then again: order, preparations - Cancellation At some point they raise their hands, and then we gather.
"Or once block a large bus with riot cops, and disarm them without the use of force. They will become soft and pleasant-mannered. Such an event can have a very big impact on all parties. One has to create a point advantage, repeat it, and generally be smarter and more agile than The riot police. "
How many turn to you?
"My mailbox is packed to the brim with inquiries, and what's particularly pleasing is that organizations from all over the world are also applying. I do not want to cultivate illusions: so far there are only hundreds of people, but I hope their numbers will increase quickly."
"I will look for a job in Israel"
Chernyshev recently added to its Facebook page the blue-and-white flag, which has become associated with the Russian protest against Putin, though mostly outside Russia.
It is a flag designed by Mitya Morovov-Shiner, and is supposed to represent the "wonderful Russia of the future."
According to the manifesto of the flag-makers, in the Russia of the future there is no place for authoritarianism, no place for the occupation of new territories, and any territorial claim is denied from neighboring countries.
This is supposed to be "Russia without a cult of war," so, conspicuously, the new flag gives up the red color that appears on the bottom stripe of the current Russian flag.
The reason: "The color red is the color of blood and war."
Chernyshov: "I really like the idea of erasing the red from the flag. After all, the Red Bolsheviks held power only by force and cruelty. Hunger, food vouchers, a draconian punishment system. In 1991 they thought society should not be shaken, and did not alienate the communist elements. You see why it brought.
"No one in the future should have so much power. The idea of separation of powers was invented by not stupid people at all; everyone should compromise, and that's the only way. Because what we call 'strong rule' has one meaning: that the government can spit on any "This is the strong Russian government: any person can be broken."
In recent weeks, there have been voices in Russia and Western countries estimating, and perhaps expecting, a coup in the Kremlin. It can be assumed that many citizens in Russia are also building on this. What do you have to tell them?
"That it's a cheap justification for not doing anything yourself. It's very vital that the nation mobilizes for the struggle. Look at the Ukrainians: they did the Maiden Revolution, and every new president knows that if he deviates from the path - they will oust him like Yanukovych. There is no way to downplay this event. A sword that is constantly hoisted over any future president. "
So only does Russia need a revolt now, at the present stage of its history?
"Of course there may be some group of young officers who will shoot Putin, as long as they lift the sanctions, but I do not see them. I would be happy to find out I was wrong."
Chernyshev in Jaffa, this week.
"My mailbox is packed to capacity with inquiries," Photo: Yehoshua Yosef
For now, Chernyshev intends to stay in Israel for at least three months.
"It all depends on whether I can find a job here. In the meantime, I am preparing to conduct creative thinking workshops for children and adults, and there are contacts with Tel Aviv University to hold a series of lectures. It is not impossible that I will try to get citizenship."
What Russia do you see in 2025?
"There are only two options: either it will become a normal state, or it will cease to exist. It simply will not survive until 2025. It will not even survive the current year, because this war and the sanctions are a blow that without change - there is no revival."
davidb@israelhayom.co.il
Were we wrong?
Fixed!
If you found an error in the article, we'll be happy for you to share it with us