Míriam Nogueras: "The person most responsible for espionage against the independence movement is called Pedro Sánchez"

Míriam Nogueras (Dosrius, 42 years old) is a staunch independentista.

No concessions.

She denounces the separatist pragmatism of ERC.

The party spokeswoman and the voice of Carles Puigdemont in Madrid not only does not regret the illegal referendum of 2017 and the subsequent street demonstrations, but also emphasizes that he would propose them again and criticizes an anesthesia since then of Catalan society.

Question

.

Have you been somewhat convinced by the explanations and proposals of the Prime Minister to better regulate the CNI after the Pegasus case?

Response.

Obviously not, in any case.

Sánchez has not convinced us of anything for a long time.

Q.

But for some deeper reason?

A.

We independentists are not here to reform the Spanish state.

Maybe one of his own buys Sánchez that I don't know anything, this doesn't go with me and it's all the fault of the PP.

Any reform that a State makes of laws that are obsolete is fine, but in this case it is one more tease and a kick forward in the face of an absolutely serious issue: that politicians who have been chosen at the polls and think in a certain way we have the infected mobile.

P.

Why do they insist so much that the Police and the Civil Guard have also been able to spy with Pegasus?

Do you have any proof?

R.

When the Citizen Lab report came out, we were promptly informed and when we had enough evidence, it was published.

If we ask Minister Fernando Grande-Marlaska that, it is because there is an investigation and the evidence exists.

P.

You conclude that the Government used the CNI to spy on the environment of former President Carles Puigdemont and arrest him.

R.

We have been saying it for a long time and in recent weeks this idea has been reinforced.

P.

Is it feasible that the CNI leadership can apply this espionage without the knowledge of the Government or can it be just a few errands?

A.

They are errands.

P.

But without the knowledge or authorization of the president or the government?

R.

I am absolutely sure that the president would have to know.

And if not, it's even worse that he doesn't find out what's going on in his house.

Knowing the structure of La Moncloa, the head of independence espionage is called Pedro Sánchez, who is the one who signs the intelligence directive.

P.

Why did they leave the appearance of the former director of the CNI more worried about how they entered?

R.

More than worried, angry.

Everything that we had sustained for a very long time was reinforced.

P.

If you give the State an arm wrestle, isn't it naive to think that the State is not going to respond to you with all the means at its disposal?

R.

We have not thrown a pulse to the State.

What we did was exercise democracy, vote.

I have every right to decide the political future of the country in which I live and in order to decide, we need ballot boxes.

The president of a serious government does not go out and say that Barcelona was burning, that there were fires.

The reality is not this.

Q.

El Prat airport was fenced off.

R.

How can we people express what we want if it is not taking to the streets in a peaceful way, which is what we independentistas have always done?

They have put us at the level of the terrorists.

I think it would be a shock for the Spanish to realize that we have never gone against them and that we can vote and decide to be a State to put an end to a false transition, to a false full democracy.

P.

Many times Junts seems to be a tougher opposition than ERC and even the CUP.

R.

Harder I don't know, more demanding for sure.

They took us for a ride once, no more, in the motion of censure against Mariano Rajoy.

P.

But they reject very categorically the dialogue between Esquerra and the Government.

A.

Talking about dialogue is not dialogue.

There has been no dialogue to resolve the political conflict.

Sánchez says that with him the independentists have stopped fighting.

This is the great achievement of the PSOE and it has been done with the support of part of Catalanism.

P.

You have said again these days: “We will go back to the streets like in 2017″.

Really after everything that happened, the incarcerations, the sentences, is it possible to repeat it?

R.

And so much that it is possible.

Sánchez says as something very positive that the Catalonia of today is nothing like that of 2017. For me it is sad because that of 2017 was unapologetic, brave, brought millions to the streets and the Spanish State had to remove the King to instill fear and give us an injection of anesthesia.

Sooner than later we are going to go out on the street again and it's not a bad thing.

The setback of the last five years is unacceptable, especially economically.

Q.

Do you not share the pragmatic policy and pact strategy of the ERC in Madrid at all?

R.

No. The elimination of independence is a common objective of the PSOE and the PP.

It never left.

We have never understood that a pro-independence party would support the PSOE.

Míriam Nogueras, spokesperson for the Junts parliamentary group.

CARLOS ROSILLOCarlos Rosillo

P.

Is this Government of the PSOE and Unidos Podemos better for the future of Catalonia than one of the PP with VOX or is that argument that the extreme right is coming not valid for you?

R.

The best future for Catalonia is independence and it is point one of our program.

We do not share this strategy of agreeing with those who will never in their lives do anything so that we one day become a State.

And to this "the wolf is coming" I say that the PSOE is also the wolf, they show it every day.

What happens is that it is a wolf disguised as a socialist and, when it doesn't work out, they take off the disguise and go to an agreement with PP or Vox, because the European funds took them out with them before although they had negotiated them with ERC in the governance that never existed.

P.

There could be elections in a year and from what is seen in the polls you could be decisive in avoiding an alternative of the PP with Vox.

What would you do if you had that key?

R.

We would not keep the first crumb.

To be useful is to fight, to negotiate well and strong.

If Vox is where he is, it is not because of the independence movement.

We would be demanding and not only with others, but also with ourselves.

Q.

Is the demand a referendum or nothing?

R.

It is independence or independence.

P.

With another new referendum?

R.

We already did the referendum.

We are not asking for anything that has not already been done in a democratic country like Scotland.

Q.

You have dismissed the dialogue table on Catalonia as a joke.

Do you not even accept that it has served to reduce the tension a bit?

R.

The only thing that has lowered the table is the illusion that many of us have to fight.

Together we are banned from that table and it has only been called once to take the photo.

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