Last month, Talia Ovadia and Shahaf Raz broke the net again, when it turned out that the "Big Brother" finalist proposed marriage to the season winner. It was the culminating moment of the relationship, which began in front of more than 100 cameras on the reality show and delighted many fans who followed its every development in anticipation. In their first festive couple interview, they take the time to talk about everything for the first time.
"On the way to the wedding, they stop at Israel Hayom. Talia and Shahaf on the cover of "Shabbat" magazine // Reporter: Assaf Hadar // Photo: Moshe Ben Simhon
"You know that feeling where you really want to do something, and you can't wait, and you really want it to happen?" Seagull begins, "So it was just like that."
Where did this happen?
"Talia attended a fashion show in Milan, and I came from a festival in Belgium to surprise her there. She didn't know I was coming, and certainly not on the offer. I knew I wanted to do it in a certain place, which is a very romantic and pastoral place, one where you can't go wrong, but things went wrong along the way."
How was the first meeting when you surprised her?
"When I got there, she wasn't available, and instead of coming to her room, I waited for her outside the hotel. Fifteen minutes later, she left the room, and I ran to her. Avivit Bar Zohar, who is really cute, was there by chance and caught the moment. Talia was still shocked and didn't understand what was happening – and it was already in Avivit's story, and from there all over the network."
When did the offer arrive?
Shahaf: "The idea to propose has been in thought and planning since we returned from Thailand in February. After this vacation I already understood that it was going there, and I started working on the ring and the proposal, but it was postponed because of my hand injury. It was a very difficult two months for me, which led to tensions between us."
Talia: I think you were scared too.
Seagull: "There was also fear. It's a big act, and in our case it's even bigger, and it's legitimate."
When did you start working on the ring?
"I approached a guy named Matan Kadosh who really loves us, and he was glad I approached him. As for the design, I was helped by her sister. He had a very great desire to do it, and he was very patient with me, because part of the time I was busy designing, and then I postponed because I was half depressed because of my hand."
Take me back to the offer night in Milan.
Shahaf: "In Milan you go to bed earlier, and the restaurant I planned to propose to was closed. We went back to the hotel at night, met some friends from the production of her show, and as soon as we were left alone and it was already late, I felt I had to do it."
Like this, in the room?
"It was a beautiful suite, a romantic moon, and I said, 'I have a chance here, because if I wait until tomorrow I miss it.' I took her to the balcony, had a little speech and knelt."
What did you say?
Seagull: "I don't remember a word of him, I only remember the state of mind."
Talia: "I remember. He said, 'Come outside, I want to ask you something.' I didn't think in that direction at all, because I was still shocked that he came to Milan as a surprise. We went outside and he knelt. He told me that he loved me and that he had wanted to do this for a long time. He asked me, 'Would you like to live with me for the rest of your life?'"
How did you react?
"I thought he was fussing over me. Because I didn't expect it, I couldn't believe it when it happened. I was shocked and with tears in my eyes, and it took me a moment to figure out if it was real or not. He put the ring on my finger, and it was the happiest moment of my life."
Is there documentation of this?
Seagull: "No, and it's a bit my fault. I did it because I knew I wanted to do it, and I no longer agreed to anything stopping me. I could have recorded video, but apparently it was bigger than me. But I'm really okay with that, because as two people who met in a house with more than 100 cameras, it's okay if one of our most private moments isn't recorded."
Talia: "After it happened and we calmed down, we talked and decided that it was a secret only for the two of us, and that we wanted only us in the whole world to know about it right now. The absurdity is that I woke up in the morning, took off the ring and gave it back to him so they wouldn't be seen."
Shahaf: "As soon as we got back to the room, she would ask for it. Maybe because our relationship was built in front of cameras and left exposed, we enjoyed it that only we knew about it."
Didn't you tell your parents?
Shahaf: "The parents knew it was going to happen, and they were waiting for it frantically. We told them the next day."
How did you feel when it leaked?
Talia: "We managed to keep it a secret for a whole week, and we ate a serious kaffa when it was leaked. In the past year we've lost control of a lot of things, but when it's something so personal that comes out, it filmed us. We planned something specific and it was destroyed for us, but we didn't let it affect us too much."
"Doubt played in my head"
Later in the article, they will talk about what the wedding will look like and when it will take place, but first we will mention: Ovadia and Raz met for the first time inside the "Big Brother" house, and the person the production planned to introduce her to her with her ex from the past - found love elsewhere.
It all began with his courtship of her, which was received in a lukewarm manner and full of apprehension and defensiveness on her part. As in the most beautiful love stories, in their case too it was his stubbornness that ultimately led to liberation, and since then the heart of both of them has not stopped beating with very high intensity.
"A week before we left the house, we were already getting closer, and it was an intense week, but we hadn't sat alone without cameras yet, and it was very missing," Shahaf says of the first days of building a relationship outside the "brother" house, in real life. "Only after four days did we manage to create time that is only ours. We had a conversation about how willing we both were to do this, and it was the first time without cameras."
Talia: "It was very complex, and very long and intense days. A lot of mess in my head, a busy mind and a lot of impatience."
Where did you meet for the first time after the final?
Shahaf: "The first time I saw her outside the house was at the offices of Reshet, by chance, when we went there for interviews. We sit there on a bench trying to talk alone for a moment, but even then she was accompanied by a film crew to a movie they made about her, and the whole world was on us and a million phone calls. I've just left the 'brother' house, and it's like I'm supposed to go back to normal life, and suddenly I'm getting used to people's looks and phones. It's an inexplicable market."
In Talia's winning interview, published in this magazine, I asked her why she didn't follow you, and she said there wasn't even time for that. She actually puts a follower at the end of the interview.
Talia: "After three months without a phone, it took me a while to get used to it."
Shahaf: "For the first two days I spoke to her through her sister, and vice versa. I didn't touch my phone for four days, because I was in a million things. I couldn't touch him."
How was the first encounter at home without people and cameras?
Talia: "It was strange, because suddenly the person you know so well, from a very specific place, is standing next to you in real life. I was embarrassed by him, and it sounded delusional. Like, why am I ashamed of him?"
Shahaf: "Until this first encounter it was really strange for me. I would wake up in the morning, and all I cared about was what was going on with Talia. I was worried about her and I was worried about us. I would go to interviews, to programs she also participated in, and I would ask what she said. It's surreal, because I know we're together, but we always have this self-doubt playing in our heads."
The concerns are understandable. After all, she made your life difficult at home.
Talia: "He says I didn't make his life difficult, he's still arguing about it. He chased me and didn't let go, and I say this from a good place. I think that's also what made me realize that this story is true. We talked about it recently, and the pair of words I used was 'you didn't let go.' The fact that we were locked together at home, and I didn't have the option to escape, made us together today, and I won."
In fact, through her media interviews, did you realize that her intentions for you were positive?
"I remember watching her and not paying attention to her saying we were together, but I did look at her eyes and her body language. I received the final approval at this meeting when we were alone."
You can also touch each other without fear.
Seagull: "That was too."
Talia: "We're talking about it now and it feels like a dream. I was so euphoric to return to reality, everything I remember as blurred."
The test of the relationship
Since leaving the "brother's" house, their lives have changed. Apart from her longed-for million, which has not yet been used ("We are considering buying family land in the moshav, in order to live there together in the same place, and if it doesn't work out I'll invest it"), they have become career owners who arouse a lot of interest. Shahaf leads Lee Cooper's campaign, focusing even before entering the house on social entrepreneurship (for example, a startup that connects donors with nonprofit volunteers, and another initiative aimed at driving budgets from marketing to social action in order to return value to the brand).
As we know, reality is a little more complex than just another reality show, and the first major crisis that put the photogenic relationship in doubt came about six months after they left the house. While she was chosen to lead campaigns, design her own collection and realize the potential of her new status, he was injured in a skiing accident that shut him down for two sucking months, filled with inaction and a lot of brain noise.
"My first crisis was a few months after I left home. Suddenly I had a very big sense of emptiness and a bad mood, and I was really bad mentally, and I started thinking that he didn't enjoy being with me either," Talia says. "It started to affect the relationship, and here it was the first time we didn't get along. The more serious crisis came when he was injured and broke his arm."
Shahaf: "It was a very difficult time, at the level that we went to someone to get the evil eye out of us. I was injured on a ski holiday, tore two ligaments, waited for surgery for three weeks, and then was sat down for a whole month. Just this week I went back to training. That injury stopped everything for me. I was inactive, and it entered between us as well and affected the relationship. We stopped to examine everything and asked ourselves: Wait, what's going on? Do we want that?"
מישהו מכם עזב את הבית?
"נסעתי לאשדוד באותו סוף השבוע כדי לבקר את סבתא שלי, ואחר כך היא נפטרה. מתוקף הנסיבות היה לי הרבה זמן לחשוב באשדוד. לא היתה פרידה מחוץ לבית, אבל אם לא היינו במצב הזה כנראה הייתי חוזר ביום שני או שלישי. במקום זה חזרתי רק ברביעי".
טליה, איך עברו עלייך הימים האלה?
"נורא ואיום. מהרגע ששחף נפצע הרגשתי שאיבדתי אותו. פתאום הכרתי בן אדם אחר. הוא שקע במחשבות שלו ונכנס ללחץ, וזה השפיע עלינו. באותו הזמן היו לי הרבה עבודות והתחייבויות. מצד אחד, ידעתי שאני צריכה להיות שם בשבילו. מצד שני, היו הרבה דברים שרציתי לעשות, והרגשתי שאני חייבת להיות בהם. הוא הרגיש שלא מספיק הייתי שם בשבילו, ואני יכולה להבין את זה".
את מרגישה שעשית את המקסימום?
טליה: "לא, יכולתי לשים את הדברים על הולד. אבל בסיטואציה שהייתי בה עשיתי את הטוב ביותר. עם כל ההבנה שלי את המצב שלו, גם אני כעסתי עליו שהוא לא מצליח להבין את הסיטואציה שאני נמצאת בה, וכל הסיפור הזה ממש גרם לנו לחשוב אם זה נכון לנו".
איך התגברתם?
שחף: "רבנו יום אחד וזה ערער אותה. ידעתי שאני גורם לה צער, אבל גם אני נפגעתי, אז לא יכולתי לתקן את זה כי האגו לא אפשר לי. בגלל שאני מכיר אותה ואני יודע שהיא לא תשתף אחרים, פשוט עירבתי את ההורים שלה. התקשרתי לאמא שלה, לא ירדתי לפרטים, אבל ביקשתי ממנה לשים לב אליה".
טליה, איך הרגשת עם זה?
"כעסתי. כל החיים שלי אני משתדלת לא לשתף את ההורים שלי בדברים קשים או כואבים, אז למה אתה עושה את זה בשמי? הבנתי שהמטרה טובה, אבל לא רציתי שההורים שלי יהיו מעורבים".
זה עזר?
שחף: "אחרי השיחה עם אמא שלה דיברתי עם אבא שלה. בבית שגדלתי בו לא היינו לוקחים עצות מההורים על איך לקיים זוגיות ארוכה, ובשיחה עם אבא שלה הוא נתן לי כמה טיפים והתייחסתי אליהם טיפה אחרת. כשחזרתי הביתה זה כבר היה ב'מוד' מסוים, וזה הוביל להשלמה שלנו".
איך היתה השיחה שאחרי?
שחף: "קודם כל התחבקנו, התנשקנו ונרגענו. אחרי שנרגענו עשינו את השיחה הזאת של איפה כל אחד מאיתנו לא היה בסדר".
טליה: "לקח לנו זמן להתגבר, כי זה היה המשבר הראשון שלנו והיינו צריכים לדעת להתמודד איתו".
שחף: "במובן מסוים זה היה מאוד בריא לזוגיות שלנו, כי ראינו את הצד השני בקיצוניות שלו, והתגברנו על זה".
לא מזמן קיבלתי תמונת פפראצי שבה את בוכה, מה קרה שם?
טליה: "היינו בדרך לסוף שבוע, רבנו, המצב היה מתוח וירדו לי דמעות. באותה התקופה היינו בצילומים לתוכנית חדשה. גם אם הייתי אומרת לעצמי 'אוקיי, אני רוצה להיפרד' - אין לי את האופציה לתת לזה מקום, כי אנחנו מתמודדים בתוכנית ביחד".
להפך, הזוג שפרש באמצע העונה בגלל פרידה נראה לי הרבה יותר מעניין.
שחף: "גם לי זה עבר בראש, וזה אבסורד, אבל אלו החיים שלנו".
חוזרים אל המצלמות
התוכנית שהשניים התכוונו אליה היא ריאליטי חדש בשם "אוטו אוכל", שיעלה בקרוב ברשת 13. בניגוד ל"האח הגדול" - הפעם, כאמור, הם משתתפים בה כזוג.
"זו היתה חוויה מעניינת ומאתגרת, שווה לחכות ולראות", טליה משתפת. "הבישולים היו מאתגרים והאנשים היו כיפיים", שחף מוסיף.
טובים השניים מן האחד?
טליה: "הגענו יחד, וזה יותר קשה, כי אנחנו כבר לא לעצמנו. מקבלים החלטות ביחד, וצריך לעבוד בשיתוף פעולה. כל פעם כל אחד מאיתנו לקח את ההובלה".
מי יותר דומיננטי במטבח?
שחף: "בדרך כלל היא. כל מה שקשור לאפייה ולמתוקים - היא הרבה יותר טובה ממני. אני גם לא אנסה לקחת את זה ממנה, אבל אני טוב בדברים אחרים".
כשקיבלתם את ההצעה התלבטתם אם ללכת?
שחף: "זה ריאליטי, אבל מאוד אחר. אנחנו רגילים לריאליטי הארדקור, אבל פה הגענו ליום צילום, בישלנו, דיברנו למצלמה והכל היה קול. טליה ואני לא מקצועיים בתחום, אלא יותר חובבנים. עניין אותנו לראות איפה אנחנו עומדים".
בדיעבד, וגם אחרי ההיכרות שלי עם שניכם, נראה שהשתתפות ב"האח הגדול" לא כל כך אופיינית לכם.
טליה: "אלו התגובות שקיבלתי לפני שנכנסתי. 'למה את צריכה את השיט הזה? זה מאוד צהוב, מאוד חושפני, מאוד לא את, ומה תעשי שם?'. אבל היה בזה משהו חשוף שהייתי צריכה בנקודה ההיא בחיים שלי. גם כדי לקבל כאפה, וגם כדי שיראו מי אני. עזוב שבסופו של דבר גיליתי שיש הרבה עריכה שלא חשבתי עליה".
אתם עדיין מופתעים שיש עריכה בריאליטי?
שחף: "אני הבאתי בחשבון שברגע שאני מגיע - הכל מצולם, ואין לי שליטה על זה. זה דווקא מה שקסם לי".
טליה: "בסופו של דבר בוצעה עריכה שלא האמנתי שתקרה. אני לא צפיתי בעונה עד ששחף היה בחו"ל והיה לי זמן בבית. ערב אחד ישבתי לראות שלושה פרקים, ונפלתי בדיוק על המריבה של שחף, ואז זה היכה בי עד כמה העריכה נוכחת. אני זוכרת את עצמי יושבת בבית לבד ותופסת את הראש".
מה הציק לך?
"היה קטע שבו שחף הלך לפרמדיק וקיבל שעת שינה. ובבית לקבל שעת שינה זה כאילו זכית בלוטו, זה הדבר הכי נחשק בבית. בפרק הראו כאילו חוגגים יום הולדת ושחף לא הוזמן, אבל בתכלס הוא קיבל שעה לנוח. זה היה תלוש מהסיטואציה לחלוטין".
"אני לובשת את המכנסיים"
הראיון הזה התקיים כמה שעות לפני ששחף וטליה נכנסו לבית "האח הגדול" בפעם השנייה. השאלות על החזרה לבית הולידו את החרדות הישנות, לפחות אצל טליה.
"אני מפחדת שכשאכנס לשם, אסתכל ימינה ושמאלה ואחטוף אגרוף בבטן. קיבלתי מהחוויה הזאת הרבה דברים טובים, אבל זאת היתה התנסות מאוד־מאוד קשה. החוויה הזאת מאוד חישלה אותי, אבל היא היתה אינטנסיבית. אי אפשר לא להגדיר אותה כטראומה. עברה שנה מאז שיצאתי משם, ועד היום אני חולמת עליה".
שחף: "אני רואה את זה אחרת לגמרי. זו היתה חוויה מאוד מחשלת אבל גם מאוד מאתגרת, והגעתי בשביל האתגר הזה. אני עדיין מתמודד איתה, אבל ממקום אחר. נכנסתי לשם אנונימי ויצאתי בן אדם מוכר".
גם הדברים שעברתם בבית היו שונים.
שחף: "היו אנשים שאתגרו אותי שם, אבל היא ממש עברה עליהום בבית. אני יכול להבין את מה שהיא אומרת. אני כל הזמן מנסה להזכיר לה שהיא ניצחה, ולהסתכל על הטוב שבזה. כשאתה עובר משהו קשה, אתה יכול לשקוע ברחמים עצמיים, ואתה יכול גם להגיד: 'איזה יופי שעברתי כזה דבר עוצמתי'".
טליה: "אני לא יכולה לשנות את מה שהיה, ולמרות שהיה גם הרבה רע - עדיין הייתי עושה את זה".
השאלה היא על מה אתם שמים את הזרקור.
טליה: "הזרקור היום הוא על העשייה שלי, וגם על דברים הרבה יותר מהותיים מעוד קמפיין שקיבלתי באינסטגרם, אבל אני לא יכולה להתעלם ולשכוח את מה שעברתי שם. הניתוק מהמציאות היה לי קשה ברמה שבשלב מסוים הייתי בטוחה שנולדתי בבית הזה. מעולם לא חוויתי שינוי תודעה, וזה משהו שלמוח קשה מאוד להבין. בשלב מסוים שכחתי איך ההורים שלי נראים".
שחף: "אני לא מקל ראש בחוויה הזאת, אבל את מעצימה את הפן השלילי. בכל פעם שתתמקדי בשלילי, העוצמות של זה יגברו אפילו יותר".
את מטופלת?
"לא, אין לי את העניין לבוא ולפרוק אצל מישהו אחר. זה לא היה גם לפני 'האח הגדול'".
שחף: "גם בבית 'האח' היא לא נכנסה לפסיכולוג. אני חיכיתי למפגשים האלה כדי להוריד את המיקרופון ולהגיד את מה שאני רוצה, היה צריך לגרש אותי מהחדר. היא יצאה אחרי חמש דקות".
לכם יש את השיחות העמוקות האלה?
שחף: "יש לנו שיחות סביב היומיום, והרבה פעמים הטריגר לשיחות מגיע ממקום של חילוקי דעות או עימות. באידיאל היינו רוצים לייצר שיחות עוד לפני שנגיע לחיכוך".
Talia: "My first instinct is to work things out with myself first. I'm aware that it's not good. If I have a storm in my soul, I won't need to take it out. That's how I grew up, and even when I try, it doesn't do me any good."
Seagull: "Only an external person can bring us a different angle."
Talia: "I haven't reached a dilemma I can't solve on my own."
We saw on "Big Brother" that you believe very much, have you gotten stronger in the past year?
Talia: I stayed the same.
Shahaf: "I have always been spiritual, not from a religious place. I see in Judaism many good things and guidelines for life, such as gratitude and love your neighbor as yourself."
Talia: "You used to eat non-kosher and now you don't."
Shahaf: "It's not because of the religious prohibition, but because of you. I don't think there is any divine power if I eat a burger with cheese."
Did she ask you to start keeping kosher?
Seagull: "No, but I guard out of respect for her."
Talia: It's also healthier.
Are there things you've changed as a result of your relationship?
"Yes, I think he made me talk more. Before our relationship I was very concise. My listening ability also improved."
Who does laundry?
Seagull: "I am. It is the largest producer of dirty laundry. She can wear a garment for five minutes and then throw it in the laundry. A courier brought us food last week, she wore my shirt for a minute to open for him and threw it in the laundry after he left."
Who does dishes?
Talia: "It's neater and I'm cleaner."
Seagull: "She suddenly kidnaps the jnana, picks up chairs and cleans the whole house."
Starting with you?
Talia: "They used to start a lot with me in all kinds of social situations. You feel that a person comes and tries to find out. If it's someone who approaches, I tell them about a seagull, and if it's on Instagram, I don't answer."
Shahaf: "She thinks girls start with me on Instagram all the time. I'm nice and try to answer my followers, but nothing out of the ordinary."
Are you a fanatic?
Seagull: "I'm not a fanatic, but to a certain extent."
Talia: "Once he felt that I had a warm place in a better friend of mine than he did. He didn't think there was anything between us, but he wanted to be that place."
Shahaf: "I felt that someone was getting more 'Talia' than me on a daily basis."
Talia: "This is something new for me, because everyone who was in my relationship with me before Shahaf was very possessive. Seagull is very different from everyone I've dated."
Seagull: "She dated 'Aliranim.'"
"Eliabim", if anything.
Talia: "No and no. Quit the movie. At first I thought maybe he cared less about me, but later I realized it was a matter of self-confidence and I flew over it. I understood how things should look and happen in the relationship with him."
You could have met him two years ago and it wouldn't have worked.
Talia: "Unequivocally. I had to go through a lot in previous relationships. Both the timing and the Big Brother house. Today, in retrospect, I understand that everything is for the best and that everything is happening at the exact time."
Classic or eggplant?
Two weeks ago, they celebrated their engagement, along with their birthdays. The two were born two days apart. And if that wasn't enough, they have just begun preparations for the wedding that will be talked about.
"We want a location that's not banal," she explains. "Not a banquet hall. We'd also like it to happen quickly."
Seagull: "I don't mind time as much, but I understand the value of not waiting long."
Talia: "We'll do it this summer or next summer. Let's say this October. If not in October, then it will only be in March, because we don't want to get married in the winter."
Will you be able to sew a dress in two months?
Talia: "I don't have a problem, and neither do the designer of the dress. I know exactly what I want, and I'm the lightest about those things."
Shahaf: "She's very light on the whole thing of producing the event. It surprises me. I still want to see if when we get really to action it will continue to be light like that."
Talia: "We'll take an event producer. I don't care about a particular photographer, a specific DJ or anything. I want a special event, and especially someone who will take care of everything so that I will only make sure to come to the event."
You'll be handsome in a suit.
Talia: "True, but he can suddenly knock out eggplant paint."
Seagull: "All of a sudden. Classic black with bow."
Already thinking about family?
Shahaf: "Yes, but we'll let things happen, because they're out of our control. What did we gather for?"
Talia: "I feel ready to be a mother, and thirsty for what will come with it. We are not children. I'm already 30 and he's 35. I was sure I would be a mother long before that."
Makeup: Shahar Shabu Hair: Orel Aton Styling: Alex Gidron Clothing In the opening photo: Seagull - Lee Cooper shirt, COS pants, Talia - dress Studio Rotem Chen, Jewelry JIMMINI
erans@israelhayom.co.il
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