Culture and Sports Minister Miki Zohar seems to measure and weigh every word that comes out of his mouth. The press releases since he took office, and even more so after the October 7 attacks, could have been taken from the message page of the state camp – a lot of unity in one hand, and a demand for uncompromising security decisions in the other.
When I sit down with him for an interview late in the evening, Zohar's transformation, the one that has already been extensively covered, is reflected in every sentence he chooses, and more than once during the conversation he asks to dwell on formulations and repeats the sentences with well-polished emphasis.
And it's not just the words. Last month, he left his home and joined the march of the families of the abductees to Jerusalem. He was the only Likud minister, and the shouts of "shame" calling at him from all sides emphasized that his presence at the event was unwelcome, but he stayed. "I have an obligation to reach the families of the abductees, to hug and listen in their difficult hour. Although I knew it wouldn't be a simple event, I made sure to meet with anyone who wanted to meet me from the families of the abductees, hear the needs and try to help. The State of Israel must bring everyone home, especially when it comes to innocent civilians who were kidnapped from their beds on Saturday morning. It's a mission we're all committed to."
The public that elected the Likud, and in fact a much broader public, feels in recent days that the war is waning, that the government is signaling that the mission to destroy Hamas cannot be met. Do you think this war can be won?
"I don't think it's an event that can be measured by winning or losing. In my view, the political echelon and the army should be focused on two goals: One is restoring our national honor, including returning all the abductees home. The second is the restoration of deterrence vis-à-vis our neighbors near and far. If we do not completely destroy Hamas, attack Hezbollah at the hardest possible level, which will no longer dare threaten the residents of the north, and significantly harm Iran, which is the head of the snake, we will not have the opportunity to continue to prosper in the Middle East. I said this to Netanyahu and Galant and all the cabinet members in the simplest way possible."
Nonetheless, the army and the security leadership maintain that it is better to avoid operating on two fronts at the same time.
"I believe that the northern arena is inevitable. Since October 7, my perception of the enemy has changed. When they tell me that Hezbollah is not interested in escalation because Lebanon is prosperous, I don't buy it anymore. These are terrorist organizations that do not think rationally. They are busy destroying Israel, and that is their ultimate goal. If we end the war only with the southern campaign, we will remain in constant danger so that at any moment our enemies will try to recreate October 7. And let no one have any doubt – they will also try."
And in relation to the feelings of shuffling towards a decline in the south?
"The IDF has an organized plan, and I think that its plan works at a very heavy price and very painful in a way that is very difficult to contain. When I hear every day about soldiers falling, I go back to the age of 5, when they told us that my father had been killed. When bereavement knocks on your door, nothing is the same again. Every joy is mixed with sadness, every Friday dinner is incomplete, and loss remains present in your life throughout. Every announcement like this to a bereaved family turns its life upside down, and I know exactly how difficult it is, so the very heavy price we pay obliges us to complete the mission and win the war according to all the definitions given to the IDF, and I have no doubt that the IDF will meet the mission."
This week, Minister Nir Barkat criticized the conduct of the war, claiming that IDF soldiers are risking their lives as a result.
"The United States is very important to Israel, so we must maneuver between its demands towards us and our security needs. There are many other international pressures that we will have to withstand, such as, God forbid, the establishment of a Palestinian state and a foothold for the PA in Gaza. In my opinion, all members of the government and Netanyahu must withstand these pressures both externally and in closed rooms – we must not lie to the public about this."
Still, in the closed discussions in Israel, there is no longer any secret that some cooperation with the PA in Gaza will be required.
"We cannot allow those who encourage terrorism, fund terrorism and educate for terrorism to rule the Gaza Strip. The bloody price we are paying also stems from the enormous incitement in Gaza, the PA and elsewhere that raised an entire generation to murder Jews. If we do not recognize this perception that the ideological component passed on to Palestinian children is critical, we will continue to pay a heavy price in the future as well."
Zohar, the minister of culture and sports, focuses on the issues of the war and seems to have a message to convey to his colleagues in the government and its leader, perhaps against the background of the gloomy forecasts for his party in the polls and perhaps because he is attentive to the criticism he hears from right-wing voters. One way or another, not many in the Likud will like to hear what he says.
"Disrespecting the Likudniks"
As a member of the government, what responsibility did you have for the Simchat Torah massacre?
"I think that the responsibility for the events of October 7 lies with all of us, certainly the elected government and its leader. After the war, a state and independent commission of inquiry will examine the events and put the conclusions on the table."
Still, looking back, what do you think are the causes?
"Unfortunately, the entire State of Israel was captive to a mistaken conception, in which Hamas thinks rationally and that the welfare of the residents of Gaza is before its eyes, while this Nazi organization worked from morning to evening to prepare for a bloody war against us. We developed a delusional method of giving terrorists suitcases of money in order to buy time, we contained incendiary balloons and demonstrations on the fence, and we made sure to bring tens of thousands of Gazans here for work – all this, together with the great intelligence failure, led to the terrible results of October 7."
With the support of a fighter jet: The 162nd Division operates in the heart of Darj Tufah | Here's what it looks like | IDF Spokesperson
Two months ago, Gantz entered with his party as a full partner in the government, with the aim of participating in the conduct of the war. But the past week and the squeaks with Ben-Gvir over the state camp's demand to extend the IPS commissioner's term suggest that Gantz is on his way to stepping down, and only the question of grounds remains. Zohar demanded this week that Ben-Gvir abide by agreements with Gantz's party, but when asked about it in an interview, his position sounds more complex.
"My principled position is that during the war, responsibility must be shown in decision-making, and in this case there is also the component of the agreements we had with the state camp. We agreed that any appointment would come in agreement and coordination in order to avoid disputes that would make it difficult for the joint functioning in the conduct of the war. On the merits, Ben-Gvir made an excellent decision to extend the term of the police commissioner, and on the other hand, his decision on the issue of the commissioner can be understood for two reasons: one – a very dysfunctional performance in the prison service that needs to be corrected, and the second – a terrible statement by the commissioner against the political echelon that is unacceptable and unacceptable."
Ben-Gvir, the minister in charge of the police and the Prison Service, demands that his hands not be tied even in wartime for appointments he is not interested in. Is that a lot to ask for?
"The governance component has always been my lot and I see it as an important value as part of my camp's policy, but the circumstances at this time are different because we are at war."
If in wartime it is appropriate to convene decisions by consensus, why does the government tend to hold municipal elections in wartime and infringe on the right of reservists to be elected?
"We made a decision that in my opinion is correct: the IDF will give information by the beginning of the week as to how many of the soldiers who serve in the reserves and are supposed to participate in the elections can be released for the election period. If the numbers presented by the IDF are reasonable and reasonable, without violating the right of the fighters to be elected, the date will remain January 30. Regarding the right to vote, a very logical response was given that would add voting days, including polling stations inside the Gaza Strip. In the end, a strong democracy knows how to continue to exist even in times of crisis and war. This is the strength of this country and this people.
., Photo: None
"The alternative in this case is to surrender to terror and allow any terrorist organization to determine for Israel as a sovereign state when to hold the election campaign. Every time we postpone elections because of war, we will reach a situation where election dates will be determined by our enemies."
Or maybe you don't want to postpone these elections after the war because the Likud mayors are pressuring you?
"Of course not," he replies curtly, refusing to add. But his position on national elections at this time actually sounds different.
In your opinion, Gantz's resignation from the government, when it happens, will lead to elections?
"Quitting the government at this time is surrendering to extremist voices who want the government to fall at any price. Anyone who tries to promote elections in Israel is not thinking about unity in Israel but about dividing the people, because what will elections do if they do not divide the people more than they did on 6 October? We are at defining moments of the unity of the people of Israel during the war against our enemies, and this important process must not be harmed."
Do you think Minister Gideon Sa'ar is back in the ranks of the Likud?
"According to the public statements made by Sa'ar and some members of his party, it does not appear that he intends or wants to return to the Likud."
In light of the polls, the Likud is expected to crash in the elections. Maybe that bothers you too?
"I'm afraid that there are those who disrespect the Likudniks. If, God forbid, we are dragged into an election campaign at this time, we will know how to deal with and convince the public of the justice of our path, but any involvement in politics at this time seems to me detached from reality, irresponsible and inappropriate."
What do you think about Netanyahu's future?
"I have great respect for Netanyahu, but the country is more important than all of us. We recently met personally and I told him that his whole perception must change – if he doesn't restore Israel's national honor, which was severely damaged on October 7, the public won't accept it, and rightly so."
"There is no substitute for an iron hand"
Zohar, as mentioned, thinks that there is no place after the massacre and the war for the October 6 quarrels. In his eyes, the protests and reform battles should remain a thing of the past, but among the Israeli public, questions of refusal to respond to the identity of the fallen arise.
Do you hear those voices?
"On the battlefield, our enemies do not distinguish between our soldiers, and to the same extent our soldiers fight shoulder to shoulder without clarifying the origin or sectoral affiliation of those who fought alongside them, and therefore all the preoccupation with this in my view is inappropriate, and all our soldiers must be embraced wherever they are and continue to work for the unity of Israel. I can say clearly that my greatest task at this time is to preserve the unity of Israel at all costs. We have already seen what this terrible division has caused our people, he and only he brought this disaster upon us."
Could it be that the government of which you are a member is to blame?
"The culprits in this division are mainly politicians and aspirants to be politicians. Sometimes, when you do propaganda, you forget that there is an end customer who hears things and connects to them, even if they are extreme and unreal. In Israel, the culture of discourse and debate became extreme, because that's the only way people thought they could convince the public of their positions. This became more extreme from moment to moment, right and left, until we reached a point where our enemies thought we were weakened and vulnerable. If there is anything I see as a supreme value at this time, it is to bring about true unity among the people of Israel, which will not be out of language, but real and sincere, and I have no doubt that it will also bring us great success."
Do you see partners in your aspirations for unity among the people of Dan Halutz, Ehud Barak and the innovators of the protest movement?
"Unfortunately, we are witnessing quite a few people who are still immersed in hatred for Netanyahu and act in complete blindness without thinking about the consequences. This is the place to say that, fortunately, a large majority of the public does not connect with this approach and does not respect it, and I am sure that they will fail."
"We are witnessing quite a few people who are still immersed in hatred for Netanyahu and are acting blindly." Barak and Halutz, Photo: Yehuda Peretz
Yesterday's fights? Not so sure. In two weeks, the High Court of Justice will have to publish its ruling on reasonableness, and this week Channel 12 News revealed that the justices intend to strike down the law.
"As I have said in the past, I maintain my position that the court's ruling must always be respected, and in the same breath I also very much hope that during the war no decision will be made that could create another rift in the nation or an internal dispute between us, because right now we are all united and fighting our enemies together. It is also important to note that according to reports about the judges' positions, it is very clear that the decision that will be issued will also be controversial among the judges themselves. I think it only highlights the magnitude of the event and the potential damage inherent in the publication of this verdict in wartime. We must not undermine our unity at this time."
And another question about the Israeli legal system with your permission: Do you think that rulings over the years on security issues were also at the basis of the reality that led to the massacre?
"Our democratic approach obligates us to act according to international principles, but in no way does it obligate us to harm the security of Israel and the security of our citizens. I think that October 7 will change the perception of the courts and the State Prosecutor's Office on security issues, after we saw that there is no substitute for an iron hand against our enemies."
In the changes that Israeli society will undergo after the massacre, the question of haredi recruitment into the IDF arises.
"The war changed many things and many perceptions in Israeli society, including ultra-Orthodox society. We saw the volunteer spirit and the desire of many of them to contribute to the war efforts, and I have no doubt that many of them will want to enlist in the IDF in the coming years. In the end, since the establishment of the State of Israel, there have been quotas for those who wanted to study Torah, and I assume that this matter will be preserved."
A bit of culture
This week, Minister Miki Zohar announced the return of fans to the stands - good news for fans of the games. "I agreed with the commander of the Home Front Command, Maj. Gen. Rafi Milo, on bringing up to 15,<> fans into the fields per game in accordance with safety guidelines. This is huge news that will allow sports fans to return to the courts, and as far as I am concerned, this is an important achievement in our struggle against our enemies, who think they can harm our daily routine. We won't give them that pleasure," says Zohar.
In the weeks following the massacre, the minister was engaged in the rehabilitation and maintenance of the world of culture and sports. He says the office's situation room began operating at 12 noon that Saturday to address cancellations and find alternative sports solutions. "We dealt with providing solutions to problems created by the war, an outline for cultural institutions, paid performances for artists, an aid fund for artists in distress, additional compensation for hosting games abroad because they cannot host in Israel, securing delegations," he enumerates in a long sequence all the actions that prevented the collapse of the cultural world.
"Right now we're working to ensure payment for performances for soldiers, so that artists stop volunteering. And we're preparing for the Olympics in '24. Among other things, we increased the defense budget by 40 percent in order to enable athletes to leave for the Olympics safely. Fortunately, we acted efficiently and quickly on the issue of the world of culture and sports, which prevented the complete collapse of all the bodies involved in these fields. We gave fair compensation, so that activity could be restored almost immediately after the terrible disaster that befell us, and as of today, the vast majority of the sports and cultural world has returned to activity on a large scale."
Wrong? We'll fix it! If you find a mistake in the article, please share with us