Enlarge image
Olaf Scholz as a guest on »Anne Will«
Photo: NDR/Wolfgang Borrs
One could almost say that a chancellor has seldom been grilled so thoroughly on television.
In view of what is happening in Ukraine, if "barbecue" weren't just as inappropriate a term as the "pliers" that Anne Wille took Olaf Scholz in.
Let's call it an interrogation.
And that was what it was all about.
A war is raging on the eastern edge of Europe that affects the entire continent.
But Germany, as the largest economic power, seems to be showing only limited commitment to ending the slaughter.
Scholz is responsible for this – and tries to dispel the appearance of hesitation and hesitation.
Arms were constantly being delivered, but they weren't talked about, they were supposed to "get there safely."
Action is based on "great preparation and a great plan."
The sanctions had been "prepared with precision" "long before the outbreak of war."
Scholz thinks it's "perfectly fine, by the way, if the Ukrainian President asks the whole world to supply him with weapons."
But Germany also has its own interests.
Direct participation in combat operations is excluded.
And, with a view to the Polish proposal: "Even if you call them peacekeepers, they would still be troops."
Following Volodymyr Zelenskyj's speech in the Bundestag, Will doubts that Germany actually wants to assume the leadership role it deserves.
"No," says Scholz, "what you say is wrong."
With his »Zeitenwende« speech, he »ended a decades-old practice in the Federal Republic of Germany« and found it »rather quickly«.
He is very happy to "allow" criticism of this, but rejects it as dubious.
He is prepared for the question about dependencies on gas, oil and coal.
When it comes to energy, he gets energetic, jumps forward and promises “three answers”.
First, the sanctions mean that Russia "can't do anything with the transferred money" because it no longer has access to it or to stored assets.
According to Scholz, one can imagine the Kremlin as being seized.
He gets a billion every day from Germany alone, but he can't get close to it.
There would simply be no "economic strengthening of Russia" as long as the war lasted.
Warning of the consequences of an oil and gas supply stop
Second, many nations that demanded such a decision from Germany "had not yet made the decision for themselves."
Partly for technical reasons.
A whole series of Eastern European states from Soviet times still have "networks that are not connected to Western Europe at all."
As mayor of Hamburg, he himself wanted to push the construction of LNG terminals for alternative gas - but nobody wanted to finance them because the gas from Russia is unrivaled cheaper.
For too long "they have relied on market-based models."
Third, "an unbelievable number of jobs" depended on coal, gas and oil.
Entire branches of industry could be paralyzed by an embargo.
Conversely, with a Russian delivery stop, it looks similar: "Believe me, the question of what actually happens if it suddenly stops has been on my mind for a long time".
Scholz dismisses Anne Will's objection that "mathematical models" from experts look different: "But they see it wrong.
I don't know anyone in business who doesn't know that these are the consequences."
The truth is "that we would trigger a major economic crisis if we do that."
Plans to become independent have been in the drawer for a long time and are now being “activated”.
He promises that it could be ready by the end of the year.
Reference to the many Russian victims
The chancellor is just as reluctant to be tempted to insults as he is to an immediate embargo.
US President Joe Biden may have called Putin a war criminal.
Scholz sticks to his proven Scholzism that the war is criminal and that it is Putin's war.
Will continues to try to catch Scholz.
But either there are no tricks, or he hides them very well.
Is "NATO's true goal," as Joe Biden suggested, a regime change in Moscow?
No, that is not "the object and goal of the policy that we pursue together".
As for Putin, Scholz believes the decisions he made are "wrong, also wrong from a Russian perspective."
He talks about the victims of this war, also on the side of the aggressor.
During his last visit, he looked very closely at "the young faces of the soldiers who stood guard in Moscow" and thought that if the worst came to the worst, these young people would die.
That was the most emotional moment of this show.
Immediately afterwards, Scholz switches to a very decisive mode.
"The use of biological or chemical weapons must not take place."
He himself had warned Putin against such a false flag operation and threatened "the severest consequences."
A clear message to the Kremlin boss
What would these consequences look like, Anne Will wants to know.
Scholz does not want to go into detail, "and we have good reasons for that": "There is an announcement that we will make ourselves so strong that nobody can dare to attack us".
He paraphrases the US President: »We will respond«.
From a defensive point of view, this also includes a missile shield based on the Israeli model ("Iron Dome") over the Federal Republic - and the message to Putin: "Don't you dare".
What, Anne Will asked, "are you preparing the Germans for?"
Scholz effortlessly breaks the geopolitical down to everyday life: »We all have to prepare ourselves for the fact that we have a neighbor who is currently using violence«.
Leafing through history books and the idea of making old borders the basis of current actions would plunge Europe into an “eternal war”: “It is already the return of imperialism,” he says, and it must be prevented “that this practice will".
That has the necessary seriousness.
Elsewhere he tries the necessary joke – or the Scholz variant of a joke.
When Will wants to know what's going on inside the traffic light, he brushes her off.
He will not report on internal government actions, “not even in my biography, if I ever write one”.
He can even give short, precise and clear answers if the question is just soft enough.
Will asked if he had "imagined" the chancellorship "differently," "possibly easier?"
Scholz: "No."