While tens of thousands of Armenian separatists are fleeing Azerbaijan for Armenia following the Azeri occupation of the Nagorno-Karabakh disputed region, the Azerbaijani ambassador to Israel wants to tell the Israeli public from his perspective about what is happening in his country. In an interview with Israel Hayom, Mukhtar Mamedov after six months in Israel boasts about his strategic cooperation, tries to avoid addressing what is happening with Iran's neighbors, but mainly opposes reports of his government's intentions to ethnically cleanse the fleeing residents of Nagorno-Karabakh.
Defense Minister Galant in Azerbaijan: "We will continue to strengthen security cooperation" // Photo: Elad Malka
Armenians, who have become refugees in recent days, have expressed concern in interviews with media outlets around the world about ethnic cleansing, and therefore do not want to live under Azeri rule. Do you understand them?
"First of all, there is no ethnic cleansing in Azerbaijan. The Azerbaijani government calls on our Armenian citizens almost daily to remain in Azerbaijan-Karabakh. The president himself has stated that he considers them Azeris. We want to give them equal citizenship, religious and civil rights, and absolute protection. Since the September 19 operation, when the Azerbaijani army and police entered Karabakh, they have not acted against civilians. The operation was only against the military forces there. We had 9,10 Armenian soldiers illegally on our soil, would Israel accept such a situation? You see the reactions around the world to armed groups.
Ongoing conflict
"For three years we waited and asked the international community to put pressure on Armenia to get these forces out. They didn't do anything and moreover, during those years more troops and weapons were brought to Azerbaijan. That is why we set up the checkpoint at the Chin crossing, to make sure that no more weapons or soldiers enter Karabakh, and even that, contrary to reports in Armenia that we are blocking medical and humanitarian aid at this point, is not true. Medical help came in and out all the time."
Armenian refugees from Nagorno-Karabakh, photo: AP
Mamedov's comments follow a 24-hour operation to seize disputed territory in Azerbaijan that has triggered an ongoing conflict with neighboring Armenia and two wars, one of which occurred in 2020. The Azeris invasion and occupation of the territory now violated the ceasefire agreements, but according to Mamedov it was a legitimate activity that any sovereign state would carry out. "Since we launched the operation, we have uncovered tens of thousands of weapons, including tanks, and we are still searching and know that we will find more. Now the armed forces in our country are taking down their weapons and returning to Armenia.
"The people who are seen leaving the area are divided into two groups: one, illegal Armenian soldiers according to our demand. We're not chasing them or arresting them, we're just saying: Leave your weapons and leave. The second group are Armenian citizens of Karabak who leave because of Armenian propaganda and the media telling them that they will be executed with us. But so far what they've gotten from us has only been support. We sent them dozens of tons of supplies – food, gas and medicine. We linked them to our civilian relief forces. No one was killed or executed."
"No ethnic cleansing"
One hundred thousand left the country hastily towards Armenia. There is no basis for their concerns?
"Armenians are the last people who can talk about ethnic cleansing, because such ethnic cleansing was against the Azeris 30 years ago, in the 90s. There was genocide and dozens of Azeris were killed, including children, the elderly and women. So they are the last ones who can talk about ethnic cleansing. We are the only ones who have really experienced this," says Mamedov, who omits the ethnic cleansing of Armenians by the Ottoman Empire.
The promenade in Baku, Azerbaijan, photo: Getty Images
"Azerbaijan is as multiethnic as Israel, and none of the groups living here complain about ethnic cleansing, including Armenians who live in central Baku. We have Russian parliamentarians, Jews, they learn their languages in schools with their own textbooks, newspapers, places of worship. We know how to live in such an atmosphere and we know how to behave with these people. That's why we call on them to stay. If they want to leave, it's their decision and we're open to talking about it if they want to come back at some point."
Was there Iranian involvement in this conflict, particularly in the recent operation?
"Iran said they saw it as an internal matter of Azerbaijan," Mamedov replied. "Surprisingly, the Armenian government did not intervene either, and the border with Armenia remained quiet during the military operation in Karabakh. We see it as a smart decision on their part after so many mistakes, not to intervene and accept reality, and now we think that the next wise decision on their part will be to return to the peace talks with Azerbaijan. After we have completed the military operation in Karabakh, there are no obstacles left and we will be happy sooner to end the dispute with them. Then we will be able to open the lines of communication and the border, and in the end the Armenian people will benefit economically and diplomatically."
Nonetheless, the results of the operation strengthened you against Iran, which is striving for nuclear weapons, and perhaps even undermined the reality in the region.
"The goal was not to be strong against any other country, but to get out the armed forces from our country that posed a threat to us. Azerbaijan has the right to defend ourselves and our citizens and gain full control over our territory. In the long run, resolving the conflict over Karabakh will make us develop more economically and will strengthen us politically as well. But the goal was to give a good life to our citizens and reduce the internal threats to them."
The Iranian nuclear reactor in Bushehr,
Iran regularly violates its obligations with the IAEA, expels nuclear inspectors, and is reportedly closer than ever to nuclear weapons. What is your position?
"Azerbaijan is a party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons and calls on all parties to fulfill their obligations arising from the IAEA Protection Agreements."
The relative stability in relations with Iran and the quiet repeatedly drag Mamedov from my questions about Iran to other areas that are more convenient for him. Such as the flourishing economic ties with Israel. He also makes it clear that they do not exist to harm Iran. However, according to foreign reports, there is indeed an intention to use Azeri territory by Israel to act against Iran. A topic denied many times by Mamedov himself, including in this interview.
"I have been asked about this several times and I will repeat the same answer as I said at the time: We do not interfere in the internal affairs of other countries, and secondly, our relations with Israel are not directed against another country. We do not allow other countries to use our territory for various purposes, just as we expect other neighboring countries not to act against others on Azerbaijani soil," he said, subtly alluding to attempts by Iran to harm Israelis in Azerbaijan, which they blocked in cooperation with Israel.
Simulation of the Iranian invasion of Azerbaijani territory // Photo: Caliber News Agency
Reports of defense deals and extensive exports from Israel to Azerbaijan flood the headlines, but Azeris expect an expansion of relations in all areas: business, cyber, high-tech and agriculture. "We have a long and strategic cooperation with Israel based on connections between citizens because of the Jewish community that has lived here for decades. Now we want to expand our ties with Israel to invest in agriculture, business, education, health. We see the potential and in some areas we have already begun to act, for example Agriculture Minister Avi Dichter visited Baku and signed a road map for agricultural cooperation, and this is just the beginning."
The most prosperous area between the countries is the sale of military technologies from Israel to Azerbaijan.
"Every country in the world focuses mainly on this. Since we had occupied territory, it was important for us to invest in strong military technology to defend ourselves. Israel is one of the countries with which we cooperate in this and we are grateful for Israel's support and cooperation with Azerbaijan. Our citizens appreciate it. This year we established a cyber center with the Technion in Baku where Azerbaijani experts are trained in cybersecurity. We think that Israel's experience in these threats is very important, and also in the areas of engineering and technology education."
What is your position on progress toward normalization with Saudi Arabia?
"We think that the normalization process that has begun in the Middle East will lead to more stability and peace in the region. Azerbaijan is also happy to see the warming of relations with Turkey, especially the recent meeting between Prime Minister Netanyahu and Turkish President Erdogan in New York, because Turkey is our strategic ally and we want our companies to be good friends themselves. This creates more possibilities for cooperation.
Normalization with Saudi Arabia. Mohammed bin Salman, Photo: AP
"We were the first Shiite country to establish relations with Israel, we are pioneers in creating the atmosphere that facilitates this rapprochement, and I think we have had an indirect impact on normalization with other Muslim countries. The relations between the two countries were an example to other countries in the region that saw that it was possible for a Shiite Muslim majority to establish relations with Israel without conflict, and that the citizens of both countries liked each other. We will be happy to contribute further to the process of expanding normalization, which will contribute to peace in the region and stability."
What is your position on uranium enrichment in Saudi Arabia and the claims that such approval will increase the motivation for a nuclear arms race in the Middle East?
"We don't speak out on such issues publicly. Many countries use nuclear energy as an energy source, we have oil and gas. In Europe, other countries are safely using nuclear energy. So if countries use it wisely – implement all safety directives and have no other intentions to use it, we obviously don't intervene. But there is a use for good intention and there is a misuse."
Uranium enrichment facilities in Iran, photo: Reuters
Iran started with good intentions and look where we are now. Now, with the prospect of normalization with Saudi Arabia, Iran is uncomfortable with the expansion of the circle of Israeli peace that necessarily isolates it.
"Azerbaijan's position is that we see relations with Israel as very beneficial for both countries and we do not consider this partnership against other countries. We don't interfere in the internal affairs of other countries and ask other countries for the same thing towards us."
Well, you vote against us at the UN on our internal affairs with the Palestinians.
"It's a complex system," he squirms. "It's hard to keep all countries happy. Any route chosen will make some countries happy and some necessarily not. Azerbaijan is an active player in the Organization of Islamic States and is the chairman of the Non-Aligned Movement. There are arrangements that need to be taken into account. Each time we examine a different path and we examine it and see that cooperation with Israel has indeed grown over the years."
Mukhtar Mamedov, Photo: Yehoshua Yosef
You've been here for six months, so can we expect you to be by our side in the next votes?
"I will answer briefly in Hebrew: 'Cow, cow.'
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