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Mayor Tschentscher: Appearance in the investigative committee
Photo: Marcus Brandt / dpa
The man of the day is a few minutes ahead of time in the plenary hall of the Hamburg Parliament.
He shakes a few hands, makes small talk.
Maybe he already suspects that things won't be dangerous for him today.
When the murmuring dies down, he takes his place in the witness seat.
"You have the floor," says the chairman.
And Peter Tschentscher, Mayor of the Hanseatic City of Hamburg, gets started.
The committee of inquiry into the cum-ex scandal surrounding the Hamburg Warburg Bank met for the 30th time this Friday.
It's about the sinister suspicion that the state, in this case the city of Hamburg, wanted to waive taxes on a long-established bank.
Wrongly, against better knowledge.
And that Tschentscher influenced the decisions of the tax office.
Possibly even his predecessor, today's Chancellor Olaf Scholz.
The two SPD politicians Tschentscher and Scholz have always denied allegations in this matter.
Scholz was already a witness in the committee last year, now it's Tschentscher's turn.
For the first time, he comments on the case in detail; Warburg exempted him from tax secrecy for the duration of the meeting.
And in his speech before the questioning, Tschentscher sets the tone: It is the "duty of the committee to ultimately restore the good reputation of the Hamburg tax administration."
complicated case
The case is complicated, fuzzy in the details.
It's about so-called cum-ex deals with shares that are illegal - that was determined by the Federal Court of Justice last year.
For years, financial players have robbed the state of billions.
You have had taxes, so-called capital gains taxes for dividends, reimbursed several times.
It would only have been allowed once.
An image has established itself to show the scam: It's like copying a deposit receipt from the supermarket - and cashing in several times for the same empties.
Warburg has been doing the thing for years.
And although the bank still denies any crimes, two high-ranking former employees have already been sentenced to prison terms.
In 2016, when cum-ex cases had long been known, the Hamburg tax office for large companies asked whether 47 million euros had to be reclaimed from Warburg because of cum-ex.
Tax credits for 2009. They would otherwise become statute-barred.
The official in charge of the tax office for large companies changed her mind several times.
First she wanted to ask for it back, then not, then in October she did.
Finally, on November 17, 2016, there was a meeting with the superior financial authority, the Ministry of Finance of the city state of Hamburg.
Senator then: Peter Tschentscher.
The group, whose highest-ranking participant was the head of the Tax Administration Office, made a commitment: the money will not be reclaimed.
The facts are not clear.
A year later, in autumn 2017, Hamburg did not want to reclaim 43 million euros for 2010.
But then the Federal Ministry of Finance intervened and issued instructions.
Hamburg had to.
What makes the matter politically explosive: In autumn 2016, Warburg tried to prevent a recovery.
The two co-owners Max Warburg and Christian Olearius met the then mayor Scholz twice in the town hall.
The second time, they handed him a letter of defense protesting their innocence.
And pointed out that the bank could get into trouble if it had to pay.
Scholz doesn't remember
Scholz initially kept quiet about these conversations and now claims that he cannot remember them.
We know from the diaries of banker Olearius what happened back then.
It says, for example, that Scholz called the banker shortly after the second meeting, on November 9, 2016. Scholz recommended sending the brief to Tschentscher.
no comment
And even though it was in the tax office.
Tschentscher wrote on the paper in green ink that he was asking for information on the situation and forwarded it to the tax authorities.
A few days later the matter was off the table.
Warburg could breathe a sigh of relief.
Tschentscher now tells the committee that his officials kept him informed about the Warburg case at the time.
The decision »not to claim a tax refund in 2016 was a very carefully made decision based on the knowledge available at the time«.
The officials would have explained to him at the time that cum-ex deals could not yet be proven.
In this situation, there were fears of "official liability claims" if Warburg got into difficulties as a result of possibly unauthorized payments.
Tschentscher speaks of a "dilemma" that his subordinates saw: the statute of limitations under tax law or the risk of litigation.
Usual procedure
He himself "did not carry out his own legal assessment in individual cases".
But it was explained to him: The criminal statute of limitations runs longer than the tax statute of limitations.
If Warburg is later caught up, a refund is still possible.
Tschentscher emphasizes several times, in variations: "I have not exercised any political influence." And he could also say, "Mr. Scholz had no influence on the decisions of the tax authorities in the Warburg case through me."
The allegations are "completely unfounded" and must be corrected.
He never spoke to Scholz about the Warburg tax case.
That Scholz had the Warburg defense letter forwarded to him - usual procedure.
In principle, he would have agreed on such a procedure with Scholz.
And it was also clear that he would forward these letters to the tax authorities.
"That was the normal way." There was no file for it in the senator's office.
Insecure officer
Tschentscher explains that his officials did not inform him about other opinions in the tax office.
"In my conversations, there was no evidence that there were different assessments." It wasn't just the responsible tax officer who was torn in 2016.
Several auditors also saw cum-ex deals at Warburg and called for a refund.
The opposition doesn't believe the mayor.
"Tschentscher should have worked to ensure that his tax authorities enforced the repayment in good time before the statute of limitations expired," says CDU chairman Richard Seelmaecker.
The current mayor knew about the illegality of Cum-Ex.
The SPD continues to consider the allegations to be bogus.
Chairman Milan Pein says that in retrospect the hesitation in 2016 "proved to be successful".
In fact, Warburg has since paid back 176 million euros with interest because of Cum-Ex.
Also against the background of a corresponding judgment of the district court Bonn.
The bottom line, according to Pein, was that thanks to the interest rates, they actually made “a significant plus”.
